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  #21  
Old 02-25-2012, 11:04 AM
Stephen Challis Stephen Challis is offline
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Default Swiss Knife to the rescue!

Thanks for all the help above, everyone! It persuaded me to buy a 64Gb card for my Cowon J3 which is already bursting at the seams despite having 32GB on board and a 32GB card. I am particularly grateful for the advice about formatting to FAT32.


To help others, here is my experience.


I tried to format the card using Windows 7 with the card inserted in either my laptop’s internal card reader or a USB card reader. The only options were exFAT and NTFS. When formatted to either of these the J3 could not see it.


I then formatted the card using my Nikon D7000. The Nikon could see it; the J3 could not.


Following the advice at http://www.online-tech-tips.com/comp...ive-to-fat-32/ I tried first to format the card to FAT32 from the command prompt. After 3 hours of reporting that it was formatting the card, MS-DOS reported that the volume was too large to format to FAT32! I then tried the alternative advice and downloaded SwissKnife from http://download.cnet.com/CompuApps-S...-10070864.html but found that it would not work with Windows 7. Neither would it work on a Windows Vista computer. I finally downloaded successfully it to a Windows XP computer.


I inserted the card into the XP computer using the USB card reader. Swiss Knife reported that it could not be formatted because it was write-protected. It wasn’t, not physically, anyway. My Windows 7 computer reported that the card had been formatted to exFAT (by my Nikon 7000). I used my Windows 7 computer to reformat it to NTFS.


I re-inserted the card in the Windows XP computer, and Swiss Knife was at last able to read it and format it to FAT32 … in seconds, not 3 hours! My J3 can now see and read the card.


Many thanks for all the advice above. Had it not been there I would have given up, assuming that it could not be done.


Thanks also to Swiss Knife … but why is it that I had to rely on a 6 year old program not supported by the last two iterations of Windows to format a bang-up-to-date SDXC card???!!!
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  #22  
Old 02-25-2012, 06:38 PM
DSperber DSperber is offline
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I'm very curious to have my own experience with a 64GB card. Just ordered a Class6 SanDisk 64GB card at what I felt was a great price and it should be here next week.

It even comes with a USB SDXC reader, so hopefully that will avoid any possible problems formatting it to FAT32. I do have another external IOGear multi-slot card reader with a micro SDHC slot that I used with my old 32GB Class2 SanDisk card without an issue, and which perhaps would also have no trouble with this new 64GB SDXC card. But at least I'll have several alternatives.

I will format it using Win7 x64 and the SD Association Format utility, and hope that it just "works" on this new 64GB SDXC card as it always has for me.

Anxiously awaiting next week. My 64GB J3 is literally "topped off" right now, and is very much in need of another 32GB of Class6 capacity.
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  #23  
Old 02-25-2012, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post
... I will format it using Win7 x64 and the SD Association Format utility, and hope that it just "works" on this new 64GB SDXC card as it always has for me. ...
I don't think that's going to work as there isn't an option on it to change to FAT32, it selects accordingly on my sd association formatter software. I know you can do it, all I mean is not with that software AFAIK.
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  #24  
Old 02-25-2012, 09:50 PM
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I don't think that's going to work as there isn't an option on it to change to FAT32, it selects accordingly on my sd association formatter software. I know you can do it, all I mean is not with that software AFAIK.
I agree with your observation that this utility does not allow setting the format type. So presumably it uses some default, however that comes to be.

Are you saying that the default file format applied to the 64GB card would be NTFS or exFAT? Not FAT32 as was the case with using the same utility but with a 32GB card?

I don't have the card yet nor that SDXC reader (or my IOGear reader) to experiment with yet. Not until next week.

But if this is true then I guess using Win7's FORMAT function is the next thing to try, since that allows specifying FAT32.

And I do also have WinXP to fall back on, if I'm completely unsuccessful with Win7.

I have no camera or phone to use to get it formatted.

I wonder if Partition Wizard can be used to format the card, since it's really a USB drive? Haven't actually tried this before, and wouldn't bet on it working.

Anyway, I'll see what happens next week when I get my hands on it.
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  #25  
Old 02-26-2012, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post
I agree with your observation that this utility does not allow setting the format type. So presumably it uses some default, however that comes to be. Are you saying that the default file format applied to the 64GB card would be NTFS or exFAT?
Been using the application for a long time now and when I first got it, I looked for a way to change the format type but like stated there isn't one. I do not own a SDXC card so I am not sure what the SD formatter would default to when looking at one. Since you are getting one post back and let us know. I just assumed because of that it would not work, but prove me wrong
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  #26  
Old 02-26-2012, 03:47 PM
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I used guiformat

http://www.ridgecrop.demon.co.uk/ind...?guiformat.htm

just yesterday on my 128 gb, and think that's the one I used on my 64gb cards too from 2008 server, so I assume it'd work with windows 7/vista
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  #27  
Old 02-26-2012, 04:38 PM
DSperber DSperber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kp-j3 View Post
I used guiformat

http://www.ridgecrop.demon.co.uk/ind...?guiformat.htm

just yesterday on my 128 gb, and think that's the one I used on my 64gb cards too from 2008 server, so I assume it'd work with windows 7/vista
Many thanks for the tip.

When formatting your 64GB card did you leave its presented default 4096 allocation unit size, or did you change it, or does it have a different value pop up for a 64GB card?

Did you also leave "quick format" or did you un-check that option?

And your 64GB card formatted by this program to FAT32 is then usable on a J3? You've used it?
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  #28  
Old 02-26-2012, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post
Many thanks for the tip.

When formatting your 64GB card did you leave its presented default 4096 allocation unit size, or did you change it, or does it have a different value pop up for a 64GB card?

Did you also leave "quick format" or did you un-check that option?

And your 64GB card formatted by this program to FAT32 is then usable on a J3? You've used it?
I have to admit, I'm not anywhere near as detail oriented as you are It's been a while so, these are just best recollections. Did not go out of my way to change allocate unit size, and it looks like it picked 32,768, probably did quick format.

I actually forced a size of 65,536 on my 128gb as I'm trying to speed up disk check on my car stereos that slow startup from key on.
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  #29  
Old 02-27-2012, 01:09 PM
jpgr jpgr is offline
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default fat32 cluster sizes - http://support.microsoft.com/kb/192322

i did quick format and the program selected the 32kb size, i didnt try altering it.
the guiformat.exe works ok on windows 7

btw the first time i used the supplied SD adapter and guiformat showed 64GB.
putting it into the c2 showed up as 32gb. formatting it in the c2 gave me 32gb.
i then put it back into the adapter and formatted again which gave me 64gb.
when i then placed it into the c2 and connected it to windows it now showed 64gb.

c2 and j3 are now both showing 59.4gb - (might try altering the cluster size)
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  #30  
Old 02-27-2012, 11:02 PM
DSperber DSperber is offline
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Very interesting article on the SD Association site, regarding a serious warning NOT to use the SDXC card in a device (i.e. card reader) which does not support SDXC.

I suspect my IOGear reader only supports SDHC. Thankfully the 64GB SanDisk card I bought through Amazon comes with an SDXC reader... so that's what I will be using to try and format it, with my first try using the official recommended SD Format Utility.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Only Use SDXC Memory Cards in SDXC Devices

SDXC devices are backwards compatible, so they accept SD and SDHC memory cards. SDXC memory cards must only be used with SDXC devices and should never be used in non-compatible devices. If you need to format an SDXC memory card, you can typically format it by using your SDXC device or by using the SD Formatter 3.0 with your computer.

If an SDXC memory card is inserted into a computer or device that does not support the SDXC standard, a message may prompt you to format the card. Do not format the SDXC memory card in a non-compatible device because it will erase the data on the SDXC memory card and format the card for a different file system, making it incompatible with SDXC devices.
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  #31  
Old 02-28-2012, 05:43 AM
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Reading that shows that in some things they’re not “in-the-know.” or they're strictly speaking of the new XC standard which the current XC cards are not complying with or they wouldn't work in current devices the support up to 32GB HC cards.
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  #32  
Old 03-04-2012, 01:38 AM
DSperber DSperber is offline
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The SanDisk 64GB Class6 microSDXC card (plus micro->SD adapter) plus SDXC USB reader that I bought on Amazon arrived today.

I plugged the card into the adapter, and the adapter into the reader, and the reader into a USB port on the PC. Win7 spotted the new drive complex immediately, and assigned a drive letter. The usual Explorer window appeared, asking me if I wanted to blah, blah, blah...


I looked at it with DISKMGMT.MSC and it appeared to be pre-formatted as exFAT. Win7 has no trouble with this. I also looked at it with Partition Wizard, and the program complained about "bad data" or something. I thought PW could handle exFAT, but maybe not.

I then opened SD Formatter 3.1 (which provides no options for format type), left the defaults presented, un-checked the "Quick Format" item (thinking I would do a "complete ERASE") and clicked to do the FORMAT.

It took just a little time, and it was done. There was a message indicating that "Quick Format" had been performed because the device did not support "Flash ERASE". No problem for me, as long as the formatting was done as FAT32.

I again looked at the drive with DISKMGMT.MSC, and it was still exFAT. So it would appear SD Formatter 3.1 either read the current format and chose to leave it (just erasing the data), or it only can format to exFAT with this size device. Anyway, exFAT is obviously not acceptable. It's clear that the SD Formatter 3.1 program IS UNUSABLE TO FORMAT THIS 64GB SDXC CARD AS FAT32.

I then ran GUIFormat (as suggested earlier in this thread), and left the pre-populated 32768 allocation-unit size. Upon opening and selecting the drive/device to be formatted, it did show that it currently was 60GB of exFAT. I clicked to begin the format process, and it took a little while and then it was done. Obviously another "quick format" had occurred, but this time to FAT32.

I once again looked at the drive with DISKMGMT.MSC, and now finally it was officially FAT32. I also again looked at the drive with Partition Wizard and now it was recognized as formatted with FAT32. And both DISKMGMT and PW showed it to just under 60GB of available data capacity. So I was convinced it had been formatted successfully with GUIFormat.

Finally, I launched H2Testw to confirm that the card is real and not a fake (although I trust the vendor and it arrived in sealed retail SanDisk packaging). It's running right now but I have another 2 hours or so (out of 2.5 hours total) until it completes (at least the WRITE portion, if not both WRITE + VERIFY). I don't care how long this one-time double-check takes. NOTE: about 32GB into the test the write speed shown is 6.62MB/sec, which confirms Class6 to me and the fact that the SDXC reader and micro->SD adapter is all working perfectly with this 64GB Class6 card.

When all this ends, I will copy a few artist/album folders to the new card, "safely remove hardware", and then disconnect from PC. Then I will remove my existing SanDisk 32GB Class2 card from my J3, insert the new SanDisk 64GB Class6 card and power on the J3 to see what happens.

If all goes well I will connect the J3 to the PC, copy another few artist/album folders to the external storage drive letter, "safely remove hardware", and disconnect from PC. Then I'll power on the J3 and see if this second blast of data is also usable.

If it is, then I believe I will have proven for myself that this whole effort was worth the wait. I will now have a 32GB+64GB J3.

I'll then copy the rest of the music files from PC to J3-EXT that I want to place there. I will also delete a number of music folders/files currently now J3 internal storage to free up considerable room there (as I have almost nothing free at the moment), re-copy those same now-deleted folders/files from my PC collection to external storage, and I'll be done with the installation of the 64GB card.

Based on flawless results so far, I would say THIS WORKS!

(I have no intention of trying out my old IOGear card reader, which probably does not support SDXC but I don't care to experiment, with the new card. Since the new SDXC reader and micro->SD adapter that came with this 64GB card and which apparently works 100% correctly is perfectly fine for any of my future needs, I'm satisfied to use it going forward although I suspect I can also still successfully write to the card while it's inserted into the J3 just as I do today with my 32GB card.)

Last edited by DSperber; 03-04-2012 at 02:09 AM.
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  #33  
Old 03-04-2012, 04:21 AM
DSperber DSperber is offline
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It might be due to the use of the SDXC reader which was included with my purchase but so far the entire pre-J3 initialization process has been flawless and problem-free (other than the fact that SD Formatter Utility 3.1 did not change the SanDisk pre-fomatted exFAT to FAT32, and thus was unacceptable). GUIFormat is obviously the right program to use to initialize the card to 64GB FAT32 on Win7.

Anyway, H2Testw reported NO ERRORS. Stated performance was 6.61MB/sec for WRITE and 18.8MB/sec for READ.

GUIFormat formatted and reported full 64GB capacity:




Also, DISKMGMT.MSC confirms:

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  #34  
Old 03-04-2012, 05:11 AM
DSperber DSperber is offline
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Well, looks like my optimism suggested in my prior post was unjustified. Looks like there are problems when the card is inserted into the J3 and then the J3 is connected to the PC.

My first test had copied a few folders of music files over from PC to the card, while it was still inserted into the SDXC reader. No problem, and Windows reported it as a 64GB card (60Gb usable).

I then disconnected the reader from the PC, removed the card and put it into into the J3, and booted the J3. Again, everything was apparently perfect. The music folders/files I'd copied to the J3 were visible and playable. No problem.

Then I connected the J3 to the PC, and the external card was inaccessbile. Windows claimed it needed to be formatted. And DISKMGMT.MSC claimed it was "raw" and only 32GB (30GB usable).




I certainly am not going to attempt to use GUIFormat to try and format the card to 64GB FAT32 again while the card is in the J3. This is obviously just an unacceptable arrangement, and I will simply have to accept what this result implies, namely that the 64GB card can be maintained perfectly as a 64GB removable drive when used in the SDXC reader which is connected to the PC, but it cannot be accessed properly when inserted into the J3 and then the J3 is connected to the PC.

Thus any and all maintenance of external 64GB storage will not be possible with the card inserted in the J3 and the J3 connected to the PC. It will have to be removed and maintained through the SDXC reader. I can certainly live with that restriction.

And I still consider the project to be a total success... virtually.
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  #35  
Old 03-04-2012, 11:34 PM
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There is a parallel thread going on over at iaudiophile.net. You can refer to it for ongoing discussion. That thread started in November of 2011, but the recent posts mirror what is on this thread here.

Please continue all additional comments over on that other thread, to avoid unnecessary duplication.

In particular, page 3 is where the current discussion and findings takes place that is most useful.
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  #36  
Old 03-06-2012, 04:31 PM
Stephen Challis Stephen Challis is offline
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Default J3 can't see some tracks on 64Gb card

Since my last post I have discovered that although I have successfully added 45GB worth of songs (over 12,000 tracks) to my Sandisk 64Gb micro SDXC card and my computer can see and play all 12,000+ of them, the J3 cannot see some of them although it can see the folders that contain them. It simply reports 'No file' where the tracks should be. The 'missing' tracks cannot be accessed through the tags either (eg through the lists of albums or track names). I have reformatted the card using GuiFormat, thinking that Swiss Knife was the problem, but still the J3 cannot see some of the tracks. I don't know how many it can't see - 8,000 tracks would be an awful lot to check! I presume that the J3 is unable to see more than 32Gb.
To format the card and transfer the files I am using the Sandisk microSD/microSDHC adapter that came with the 64Gb card and a SanDisk Micromate SDHC card reader. The built-in SD card reader on my computer cannot see the 64Gb card at all.
I am running Windows 7.
Has anyone else had this problem? Does anyone have any ideas about how to solve it?
.........
I may be able to answer my own question. The Cowon website states that the J3 can read only 8,000 folders/files on the SD card and the same number on its built-in memory. It therefore looks like I should not have bought a 64Gb card - a 32Gb card holds about as many tracks as the J3 can cope with. If I come to any different conclusion I'll report back.
.........
Reporting back - yes, that was it! I have split my folders so that 7,500 mp3 tracks are on the 64Gb card (consuming 39Gb of space) and the rest are on the J3's own memory (22Gb), and all the tracks are now available - as far as I can see; I am not checking for every one!
It's the old story - if all else fails, read the instructions!

Many thanks to all contributors to this thread; without you I would not have bought the card, or persevered with it.

Last edited by Stephen Challis; 03-08-2012 at 03:54 PM. Reason: extra information added ... answer found
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  #37  
Old 03-07-2012, 11:26 AM
abiJD abiJD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Challis View Post
... I may be able to answer my own question. The Cowon website states that the J3 can read only 8,000 folders/files on the SD card and the same number on its built-in memory. It therefore looks like I should not have bought a 64Gb card - a 32Gb card holds about as many tracks as the J3 can cope with. If I come to any different conclusion I'll report back.
you could have come to this conclusion before when reading this thread thoroughly from the start before. ;-)
maybe you can now take your hundreds of albums in FLAC format with you as it comes down to be a file number problem...
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  #38  
Old 03-07-2012, 12:10 PM
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maybe you can now take your hundreds of albums in FLAC format with you as it comes down to be a file number problem...
Correct. Of course it depends on the size and makeup of your music collection.

I had simply maxed-out my 32GB+32GB J3 because of wanting FLAC for my "favorite favorites". As with expanding RAM and hard drive capacity on your PC (despite the fact that you never believe you will ever really need it or use it), if it's affordable then given a choice it's just better to future-proof yourself by going with the larger size.

I just upgraded my Sandisk Class2 32GB card to a Sandisk Class6 64GB one, and aside from the triple-increase in read/write speed which is appreciated, simply no longer having any space limitation considerations, and once again being able to consider planting videos on my J3... this is well worth the price of admission.

My music collection size was simply right at the 32GB+32GB J3's "breaking point" (which is just about 60GB of content).





539 artist folders, 1024 album folders, 1024 "cover.jpg", total size 61GB.
1067 FLAC files (24GB), 5607 MP3 files (37GB)


So by dividing the collection alphabetically by artist across internal storage (A-L) and external storage (M-Z) of the J3 (now about 46% on internal and 54% on external) I'm well within the 8000 file limit on each, and I can have "all the FLAC I want".

Obviously if my collection were considerably larger I might be concerned with the 8000 limit on music files + 4000 limit on other files (e.g. JPG) on each internal and external storage, but fortunately that's not the case for me.

Last edited by DSperber; 03-07-2012 at 12:20 PM.
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  #39  
Old 05-02-2012, 09:30 AM
Zebedee Zebedee is offline
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Hi Guys. Just like to say a thank you to those who contributed to this thread as I now have a 64GB SDHC in my J3. Very pleased!

I did as others have said - connected the micro card to PC using an SD adapter (not via J3!) and used guiformat to convert to FAT32 which worked a charm. J3 takes a while to boot but recognises all the files on the card.

One word of warning - don't plug in the micro sd after you have booted your J3. My J3 made a high pitched noise (similar to radio static) which came out of the onbaord speaker even with my headphones attached. This happened to me at work and the noise wouldn't stop until i found something small enough to trigger the reset button. I was embarrassed! Haha.

Anyway - thumbs up from me. Thanks for your help.

Zebedee
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  #40  
Old 05-22-2012, 08:51 AM
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Hi all, thanks for the advice above. I have a 64gb micro formatted to FAT32 using GUI-Format.

I think I understand the above but the screenshots by DSperber have me a little confused. So for the dim among us, can I confirm the following "rules":

1) You can use a 64gb SD card as long as you don't have more than 8,000 files on it
2) You can get up to ~96gb (32gb on the player + 64gb) as long as you only have 8,000 files on the player and 8,000 on the SD card

Hence, under either of these circumstances, you can consider the expanded player maxed out(?):

You put 8,000 files of 1mb on the player and 8,000 1mb files on the SD card (16gb used in total); or

You put 8,000 files of 4mb on the player and 8,000 8mb files on the SD card (96gb used in total)

In which case, I suppose the best strategy is to make sure that movies, 1-hour long DJ mixes etc etc go on the SD card and the smaller files go on the player?
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