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  #21  
Old 07-16-2011, 04:24 PM
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Nice one, les, well put together.

@RandomHajile, you ever been to Head-Fi? Something tells me your trolling would be better suited over there...
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  #22  
Old 07-16-2011, 05:14 PM
Just Some Guy Just Some Guy is offline
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The anti-audiophile hate in this thread sickens me.

He's totally right! FIRST! You can tell the difference between a 320 kb file and a 425 kb file. For instance, the math alone verifies it: 425 minus 320 is at least an 100 kb difference. THAT'S ALMOST A THIRD MORE QUALITY!

That is an undeniable increase in sound quality. In fact, it would be enough to overcome the affects of lower-end earphones with NO EXTERNAL AMP. Even those cheap $5 earphones you an get in dollar-stores would still give you the full soundstage of the file, just like it was a DVD audio recording being played live in front of you.

Second, he's an industry insider. He's worked with compressed audio for at least several months that I can discern. His testimony about being able to tell the difference without any kind of pesky external verification is more useful to us than some bullcrap double-blind, unbiased, impartial test using established scientific methods. We're people, NOT MACHINES! We don't need machines to tell us what's better for our listening enjoyment! That's not America! That's not even Canada!

So you guys can take your "ABX" this and compress it into a file, one that no one can tell is any different from the original file, without having to use some form of testing to eliminate perceived differences. Until then, me and RandomHairgel are standing up to this tyranny!

IT'S ON NOW.

(Too subtle?)

  #23  
Old 07-16-2011, 07:08 PM
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@Just Some Guy: you ALSO rock brother!!!

  #24  
Old 07-16-2011, 07:11 PM
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Well played sir.

  #25  
Old 07-16-2011, 08:53 PM
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I feel so terrible... It took me half the post and about thirty seconds to catch what you guys apparently caught rather quickly...
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  #26  
Old 07-16-2011, 08:59 PM
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I thought he was for serious.
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  #27  
Old 07-16-2011, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Some Guy View Post
(Too subtle?)
I had to put this, hidden by making it the same color as the background, just to make sure in case anyone didn't get it.

And steinburger1109 almost made it necessary. Don't feel bad, text is often the hardest thing to convey sarcasm in.

  #28  
Old 07-16-2011, 10:34 PM
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Oh I got it about the " bullcrap double-blind, unbiased, impartial test using established scientific methods" part... Up until that point I thought you were truly just, eh, ignorant... Let's go with that word...

Haha but I did see the (too subtle). Thanks for that.
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  #29  
Old 07-17-2011, 12:12 AM
RandomHajile RandomHajile is offline
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so i have to qualifi to post here

as in upload a youtube video of me doing/passing double blind tests (i mean abx)

sorry but thats like a decade too late. and its laughable to not think ive done this in the past. im sure old audiophiles have double blind tested for decades

what next. tell me that my 5k cd player sounds as good as a dvd player.

and that you dont need blu ray. dvds are good enough.

but please let the dick sucking continue. if anything this thread is a good warning on what kinda trolls mod here

Quote:
Originally Posted by The DarkSide View Post
@RandomHajile: I owned the X1060, and what you state is BS,...PERIOD.
how long did u have/why dont u have it anymore?

what is BS. i thought audio is subjective?

troll. only look in the mirror more mate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Some Guy View Post
I had to put this, hidden by making it the same color as the background, just to make sure in case anyone didn't get it.

And steinburger1109 almost made it necessary. Don't feel bad, text is often the hardest thing to convey sarcasm in.
trolling seams the norm here. mods and random members.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steinburger1109 View Post
Nice one, les, well put together.

@RandomHajile, you ever been to Head-Fi? Something tells me your trolling would be better suited over there...
not really. ive briefly looked but as this place had a x series forum i joined here

but yeah, i think your use of termanology is incorrect. im not trolling. i am being trolled (you question is virtually an admital, no?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomHajile View Post
yes i agree. i have loads of duplacate albums on my walkman (as the normal flow chart for scene releases is 1st a 192kbps VBR mp3, 2nd a 320kbps CBR mp3 then finaly a 256kbps itunes aac. for me i pref the aac.

i agree with the over used term that high bit rates have more "air"

and that low bit rates, for me are unusable as they go quiet when it gets busy, as in when the whole band is playing with vocals a lot is lost

anyways. for me, going from 320mp3 to 400aac is worth it. im just surprised people havent expremented more

on another note my ps3 can not see these high bit rate aac's
i would really read this as someone who is talking about what works for them. no?

Last edited by musichound; 07-17-2011 at 10:31 AM. Reason: Posted 5 times in a short time duration

  #30  
Old 07-17-2011, 12:44 AM
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Yeah, no, just no.

I will further explain why you are meeting resistance from members on abi. There is an accepted standard used by many audio aficionados and a vast majority of abi members when discussing the comparison of audio formats and/or bit rates. ABX testing one such standard, and if you are displeased with this you can feel free to disagree and simply not get into such discussions on this site in the future.

Last edited by Adub; 07-17-2011 at 12:52 AM.

  #31  
Old 07-17-2011, 12:49 AM
RandomHajile RandomHajile is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomHajile View Post
like ive said i have AB'd various same albums.

my OG point was that higher bit rates make a difference on the walkman X.

furthermore i use flac on my nokia n900 and again i can tell the differance.

ive even AB'd files on my cd7 and da9000es (they both have spdif inputs) and its as clear as vhs vs dvd.

the question is have any x owners on here dabbled with what my original post touched on?
read this as, not only has he AB'd different formats of same albums (not just songs) but he has also AB'd on a proper high end hifi system (and not a low spec output from a laptop/pc)

  #32  
Old 07-17-2011, 01:03 AM
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AB is not the same thing as ABX, which was something told to you very early in the thread yet you keep ignoring.

You have obviously decided that you are correct in your belief making this discussion pointless because you're wrong and you will never know it because you believe in it with such religious like fervor that trying to sway your view is pointless and a waste of time.

Threads like this don't last very long here, perhaps you should take your soap box over to head-fi and try there, they are a gullible bunch.

  #33  
Old 07-17-2011, 01:21 AM
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I honestly can not believe that you're that offended by anything that has been posted so far. You're either incredibly thin-skinned (in which case, every single website you visit is going to be a nightmare with your behavior) or you're here to get attention.

If it's the former, than god help you. Nothing said here is anywhere near as bad as what other people on far worse sites would do. Aside from some light-hearted fun at your expense, no one here has done anything to warrant your reaction.

If it's the latter... well, nice try.

Could a mod please merge his posts into one, as it's kind of hard to keep track? That would be appreciated.

  #34  
Old 07-17-2011, 02:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lestatar View Post
^ OK. Very much against my better judgment, I am gonna say some stuff - my plans for tonight just fell through and I am now in a really shitty mood.
Never thought anyone can make les . Wow!

@OP,

Why don't you try ABX for a change with the best hi-end equipment you have? Can you tell apart FLAC and 320kbps using foobar's ABX comparator? Placebo is far more influential than you imagine.

  #35  
Old 07-17-2011, 04:09 AM
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@RandomHajile - I'm not a mod and I wouldn't say I'm 'one of the gang' here but I have learned a LOT about mp3 players from these guys and one of the most important was the value of ABX testing.

Seriously - do yourself a favour; download a copy of Foobar and the ABX add-on and do some testing. ABX is double-blind so there's no chance of placebo effect, confirmation bias, mis-matched volume between samples, or any of the other psychoacoustic phenomena that muddy the aural waters otherwise.

Basically, you give foobar two samples at different bitrates and it plays them back to you and you try to decide which is which. Do this ten or twenty times (it only takes an hour at most) and it keeps score. You can even post the results here if you really can prove these guys wrong.

Trust me; you'll be very surprised at the result. I'm a guitar player and I work in the musical instrument industry. I also do a lot of recording, pro in the past, semi-pro and home-studio nowadays. Been around a loooong time. Playing in bands since the 1960s. (Not blowing my trumpet, just so you know where I'm coming from...) I used good gear to do my ABX test (Yamaha external USB/DAC and Audio Technica ATH-M50s) and I have good hearing (can still hear up to 18kHz). Using 320kb/sec as the higher sample I found it VERY hard to tell the difference at 160kb/sec and impossible at 192. Couldn't hear ANY diff whatsoever between 320 and flac. Really. I couldn't believe it but that's the point of a truly BLIND test.

I mentioned doing yourself a favour - the favour I did myself was that without the preconception that I had to have music at high bitrates on my mp3 players I can fit a LOT more on them.

I have all my CDs ripped to flac. This is for storage. I might still listen to lossless on my home system but this is purely for the psychological aspect of knowing that it's lossless.

For listening on-the-move they are converted to 192kb/sec VBR. I can fit 700 albums on my Cowon J3. I have over 800 on a rockboxed 80GB iPod video and I still have 15GB of disk space left. How good is that!

(edited for spelling)

Last edited by selectortone; 07-17-2011 at 08:37 AM.

  #36  
Old 07-17-2011, 08:15 AM
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I miss the rep function, well said.

  #37  
Old 07-17-2011, 08:26 AM
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RandomHajile if you read back it seems that you started the name calling with post #12 and all you were being told was that perceived listening varies from person to person. So the best way for one to tell for sure is to ABX vs A/B … and now 4 posts in a row and still name calling, unbelievable!

@ selectortone very well worded but some folks are just close minded or too stubborn and think they know better than everyone else because they have some fancy title or job …

@ Just Some Guy, you got me too on the first read but I didn't go as far as musichound

@ Adub lol

@ les all good posts but the other was more typical of you.
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  #38  
Old 07-17-2011, 08:37 AM
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So I've been following this thread since the start and I have to say I'm surprised how civil the responses have been. Despite your hostile tone nobody has really gone to town on you. What you've done is tantamonut to taking a ginormas dump on someone's carpet and taking up a defensive position. You also made lestatar angry and that's just not kosher.

I suggest you go back, re-read the thread (especially the constructive stuff by skip252, walkgood and others) and take a step back from the argument. Go for a coffee, a jog and then if you still feel like arguing come back with something beyond "My ears are better than yours, My gear is better than yours, I'm better than you and my shit don't stink".

The reason you were told to ABX* is because it is generally accepted by those who have that 320 is indistinguishable from flac. There are more people who initially think they can hear a difference than who actually can hear a difference. Threads like this have to get critiqued so as not to lead newbies astray.

//Troll On
Quote:
3: i stated i have dup albums in dif formats on said walkman, and have compared, and even accentually start listening to a song and know instantly its not "right" then find the correct version i wanted to hear. this again ignored.
^I suspect you have some misconceptions of just what an ABX test is. Please explain your method.

Quote:
for the record my profession is in tv broadcast since late 90s as is my experience with compressed audio/mp3s (+minidisc) an a hobbyist in hifi since early 90s
^Your profession is irrelevant for your hearing and your age works against you.

Quote:
what next. tell me that my 5k cd player sounds as good as a dvd player.
^ You paid that much for a cd player? LOL

Quote:
but please let the dick sucking continue.
^Sure thing, Bring your pretty face to my cock.

For my part if you can check that attitude at the door you are welcome here even if you have an eccentric point of view. If not I'm inclined to side with Adub:


// Troll Off

  #39  
Old 07-17-2011, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Some Guy View Post

Could a mod please merge his posts into one, as it's kind of hard to keep track? That would be appreciated.
Done
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  #40  
Old 07-17-2011, 12:45 PM
Just Some Guy Just Some Guy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WalkGood View Post

@ Just Some Guy, you got me too on the first read but I didn't go as far as musichound
Incidentally, at which point did it become clear to all of you guys? I'm curious now. I thought the whole "425 is at least 100 more than 320" bit would have been enough, but I guess I didn't try hard enough.

musichound sent me a PM explaining how he made a post and then realized I was joking, and then I guess he got rid of it. I would have liked to have read it, even if just for the fun of it.

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