Will any more 3D games be released?

[DaveMac-MS]

Originally Posted by thygriever

So many people get mad thinking he runs the entire Zune HD program.. he isn't the President or something...

Or maybe I am, and I'm undercover... incognito...

Originally Posted by lem7

Can Dave get fired if he tells us some Zune secrets?

Fired? Maybe. Disciplined? Probably. Letting my teammates down? Absolutely. The question you guys need to ask yourself is... what is the value to me of talking about unreleased "secrets"? Stuff is always in flux, plans always change, dates get slipped out, and brought in all the time. There's almost no value whatsoever in me spilling news that isn't ready to be told simply to satisfy the curiousity of the ABi crowd. That sounds harsh - and I really don't mean it to come across as nasty - but at best I get a "cool, rock on Dave", and at worst (and almost always) I'd get a "geez Dave, MS sucks because you missed the boat on <insert topic here>". There's just no upside.

I consider my role here to be as communicative as possible. I want to engage in debate, help you guys see things from our perspective, and while I never expect to change your perspective - I just want you to see how things are from the other side of the fence. Beyond that, we can comment on the industry together, I can tell you as much about my day job and travels as I can - but that's really about it. I think I'm being more communicative than almost anyone else from any of our competitors, but at the very least, I'm being as communicative as I can.

Originally Posted by AO_11223434

I think it would just be alot easier to just make some sort of Zune SDK.
<SNIP>
Also apparently the Zune team used a special program to make 3d apps but they cant release it because it wasn't theirs to give away.The Zune team needs to make their own SDK!

Except that building an SDK, an apps submission process, an apps approval process, a whole new firmware release to support the extended SDK, revising the marketplace to support it, etc... is a mammoth job. You either build the product to support that from the get-go (like WP7) or you don't (like Zune). If you want to build apps and have a public submissions process - then WP7 is your platform. On a limited basis, I'm working with members of the community to publish their stuff in the Marketplace, but it's a manual, one-off approach. You can criticize me for it being that way, but frankly it's way more than we had originally intended, and something I'm passionate about enabling.

Cheers, Dave.

[CrowdAds]

[epithetless]

Originally Posted by DaveMac-MS

If you want to build apps and have a public submissions process - then WP7 is your platform.

So...when's that WP7-based PMP coming out again?

[lip]

Dave,
Love it if you could make sure there is a firmware update that fixes the wifi issue for some people(some types of wifi do not work), wifi performance, the gapless playback that is broke, perhaps a graphic equalizer...general improvements in UI...these types of things...
Personally these would make the Zune HD much better than adding a few games...

[analog kid]

Originally Posted by DaveMac-MS

what is the value to me of talking about unreleased "secrets"? Stuff is always in flux, plans always change, dates get slipped out, and brought in all the time. There's almost no value whatsoever in me spilling news that isn't ready to be told simply to satisfy the curiousity of the ABi crowd.

The stuff that's in flux that you can't discuss is understandable, but the total and complete wall of secrecy is another thing (which I realize isn't in your hands). I know of some other devices where the company is responsive to their customers, and where things get fixed when customers complain. But we don't get that. We get silence, and are left guessing for half a year if a problem, like broken mp4 support, will ever get fixed. Those other products also have ecosystems that expand and mature over time. We don't get that either, because, we're told, that this isn't what the Zune was intended for. This is meaningless because the scope of the HD can be broadened at any time (I see very few apps in the WP7 marketplace that couldn't have worked for the HD). It says to me that the HD was released to test the market, with no intentions of following through with it. MS has a history of doing this. If sales of the product don't immediately explode upon release, it either gets put on low to zero priority, or it gets pulled altogether. I'm wondering why any customer should care about MS products when the company doesn't regard them with any significance other than as beta testers.

[DaveMac-MS]

Hi Analog Kid:

You need to go back and read some of my earlier posts. Focus on the ones that talk about our app/game strategy, timing of the Zune HD release, and firmware updates.

Originally Posted by analog kid

I know of some other devices where the company is responsive to their customers, and where things get fixed when customers complain. But we don't get that. We get silence, and are left guessing for half a year if a problem, like broken mp4 support, will ever get fixed.

Of all the various PMP products on the market, I feel like Zune has been one of the best when it comes to updates. Historically we've brought new features to old hardware - bucking the trend of making customers buy new hardware to get new features. Likewise with our customer outreach - we've had bloggers, podcasters, forum posters, etc... on our team from day one and that's in addition to regular schmucks like me who just post in my spare time.

The Zune HD has had several firmware updates and we continue to release high quality apps and games. Will or can we fix everything that everyone on this forum would like fixed/updated/added? No, but I feel pretty strongly that we've been pretty responsive and more communicative than most.

Originally Posted by analog kid

We don't get that either, because, we're told, that this isn't what the Zune was intended for. This is meaningless because the scope of the HD can be broadened at any time (I see very few apps in the WP7 marketplace that couldn't have worked for the HD).

See my extensive posts on this topic. In a nutshell - it just made no sense for us to invest in a duplicate (mammoth) effort to build an app/game ecosystem when that was already being done by the WP7 team.

Originally Posted by analog kid

It says to me that the HD was released to test the market, with no intentions of following through with it. MS has a history of doing this. If sales of the product don't immediately explode upon release, it either gets put on low to zero priority, or it gets pulled altogether.

Also see my extensive posts on this topic. And on the contrary - whether I'm proud of this or not, Microsoft actually has a reputation for sticking things out - "third times a charm", etc... I can categorically deny that the Zune HD was in any way a "test" product. I've already explained in very great detail the timeframes around developing products and WP7 and shown that core components of WP7 were locked down well before any meaningful "test data" from Zune HD could have been applied.

Originally Posted by analog kid

I'm wondering why any customer should care about MS products when the company doesn't regard them with any significance other than as beta testers.

The question you need to ask yourself - about this product, and in fact any product - is does it serve your needs? If so, great. If not, then perhaps it's time for a different product. Of course I really hope Zune HD does serve your PMP needs, but if it doesn't - I'm not here to convince you otherwise. Really.

Thanks for your comments.

Cheers, Dave.

[analog kid]

Originally Posted by DaveMac-MS

See my extensive posts on this topic. In a nutshell - it just made no sense for us to invest in a duplicate (mammoth) effort to build an app/game ecosystem when that was already being done by the WP7 team.

I'll look into that. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

[Mr. Popo]

i think we should all step back and thank Dave for even giving us the time of day. What other company has a rep here to answer questions for us? Not one. Although Dave cant answer all our question, he has given us as much info as he can. Don't complain. We asked for more apps, we got more apps. We asked for Xvid, we got it. We asked for facebook and twitter we got them.

[Adub]

Microsoft are not the only ones who have filed suits with Motorola over the issues of copyright infringement as Apple and Oracle have as well. Without all the information it can't be saidwith absolute certainty but i highly doubt Motorola is completely innocent in these charges.

It seems you have a real hard on for Microsoft, and transparent bias generally doesn't make for very good logical footing for arguments.

[Broodbeleg]

Perhaps thats the problem Mr. Popo. They've listened to us a couple of times and now there are persons who want moar.

But I agree that it's awesome to have Dave on these forums, I like his posts =)

[analog kid]

To answer Dave's question, my HD does everything I need it to, and I don't regret buying it. It just gets frustrating after a couple of years of not being allowed to know anything about what's going on with it.

[dfkt]

Deleted lots of crap from this thread. Stay on topic.

[medion]

Deleted more crap, banned a user. I warned them on this behavior the last few threads.

[lip]

I really can't understand how some people can complain they don't like the fact that they do not know internal development cycles at MS...one can be unhappy at how these cycles turn out products that you don't like or updates you don't care about but to expect Dave or any MS employee to discuss where the product is going in any sort of detail is completely naive.
By all means, ask away as someone might slip up but I don't think you can blame Dave or anyone else for keeping their lips shut...loose lips sink ships I think is the right phrase...

I'll repeat what others have said as well...we are darn lucky to have an MS employee, in their spare time, come to the forums and give us all sorts of info and help us out. I know on top of this, Dave has helped many of us out in the background when we've had problems with our devices...the guy is just a dream employee...even when being yelled at, he replies ( most would just ignore the nonsense) in an open and non-rude way when I know I would be wanting to tell some of us to just piss off...

Kudos to Dave.

[steinburger1109]

Originally Posted by analog kid

It just gets frustrating after a couple of years of not being allowed to know anything about what's going on with it.

Hmmm... It's as though you expect detailed market plans from Dave. Would you really have any more certainty as to specific futures of other devices? I don't think this is anything to call Dave out about.