android
Go Back   abi>>forums > MP3 Players By Brand > Microsoft Zune > Zune HD

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #321  
Old 04-05-2010, 04:26 PM
lip lip is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 476
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveMac-MS View Post
I agree cars are a terrible analogy, but let's run with it.

Tires are not a fair comparison. Zune HD does all the basic PMP functions well, perhaps even very well. What you want is not a feature we advertised would be a core feature. Here's how I translate it:

You bought a Lamborghini (Zune HD) but your friend bought a Porsche Cayenne (iPod Touch). The Lamborghini can outpace the Porsche Cayenne in race performance driving (media experience) but then you watch the Porsche turn off the road, drive over the curb and go up the hillside with 4WD (apps).

You ask me why the Lamborghini can't do that and I tell you that sure, we could have built a 4WD vehicle that wouldn't have been as race performant but which could go off-road, but we didn't. We built a race car. We're also building a 4WD product (WP7) coming soon, but the model you bought was advertised and sold on the basis of being a race car. Can you drive your Lamborghini on a dirt road (basic apps)? Sure - but the focus of this product is race driving.

Don't for a moment think I don't understand you guys, or think that I wouldn't want the Zune HD to have a 100k app library today. I would. But with WP7 coming, we built the best portable media player we could, focussing on the media experience NOT using WP7 (which wasn't ready and couldn't be used anyhow).

Cheers, Dave.
You are flogging a dead horse...everybody has their wants and desires for this product but MS(or any company for that fact) must release a product for their target demographic that will meet most of the demands...unfortunately these demands will change over time so the timing of what to work on for the release is very important to capture the target market...
Most of the people asking for FLAC are obviously not the target market...I did a quick test of this last week and polled our office of about 100 people...I first asked who had an MP3 player...of the ones who had/have one only 2 people had heard of FLAC and they were both our geeks in engineering...the rest had no clue.

Unfortunately MS targets their market well with the product features but they seem to put little to no advertising into it outside of the viral releases to blogs and stuff...and it's still not available to people outside the world. In these two areas(marketing and releasing the product broadly), they have failed miserably but probably they knew in these areas they would fail before they started...

LIP
Reply With Quote

Advertisement [Remove Advertisement]

  #322  
Old 04-05-2010, 05:39 PM
Zuniq Zuniq is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 298
Default

I still wait for flac support inside Zune software...
Reply With Quote

  #323  
Old 04-05-2010, 05:57 PM
Jacob Jacob is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 249
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuniq View Post
I still wait for flac support inside Zune software...
Then get a different player. Really, Microsoft will never support this, even if you paid them. The only way this would be implemented is if everyone were to switch to FLAC, and nobody cares about audio quality.
Reply With Quote

  #324  
Old 04-05-2010, 06:59 PM
Zendude Zendude is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuniq View Post
I still wait for flac support inside Zune software...
If you are postponing your Zune HD purchase because of FLAC, you will be waiting forever. The consumer market for this is too niche. If you already own the ZHD and are waiting for an update with this feature, good luck with that. If you really need FLAC, research for a different device.
Reply With Quote

  #325  
Old 04-05-2010, 07:16 PM
Zuniq Zuniq is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 298
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zendude View Post
If you are postponing your Zune HD purchase because of FLAC, you will be waiting forever. The consumer market for this is too niche. If you already own the ZHD and are waiting for an update with this feature, good luck with that. If you really need FLAC, research for a different device.
As i wrote, i wait for a stupid flac support inside Zune software...not inside the device...its relatively easy to implement a function like this and many Zune HD users will be able to use their flac libraries directly inside the software with automatic conversion to mp3 at sync. Not a big deal! I bet Zune team can have it ready and running in a couple of hours...if they care.
Reply With Quote

  #326  
Old 04-05-2010, 07:25 PM
erythro42 erythro42 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 67
Default

Whoah. You guys are intense. That's a shit ton of posts in a few days.

As the original source of the car analogy, I apologize. It wasn't intended to be something that would hold up to the molecular level (few analogies do because they're, well, analogies).

I was just pointing out how expectations can differ. Throwing around logic like "it's premium, so it should have this random feature I want" would be like purchasing an excellent automobile and expecting it to serve every potential tiny need.

So to be fair, while car analogies may frustrate you, logic holes such as your incorrect use of "bait and switch" drive me absolutely crazy in what I imagine is a similar fashion.

I'm pretty much in line with others who view FLAC and Ogg Vorbis support as a minority. But I have noticed that every time I bring it up, the dissatisfied customers never address my advice that they should only buy products that have the features they consider most important, such as FLAC. These products exist. It's just silly to buy one that doesn't have one of your must-have features, and then stew in your own juices. Plus, by not purchasing products with those features you purport to consider important, you give companies less motivation to implement those same features.

If you're a true audiophile, the sound comes first. And as shiny and smooth as the Zune HD UI is, something like the P3 is going to serve you better if your main interest is sound quality.
Reply With Quote

  #327  
Old 04-05-2010, 07:26 PM
erythro42 erythro42 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 67
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuniq View Post
As i wrote, i wait for a stupid flac support inside Zune software...not inside the device...its relatively easy to implement a function like this and many Zune HD users will be able to use their flac libraries directly inside the software with automatic conversion to mp3 at sync. Not a big deal! I bet Zune team can have it ready and running in a couple of hours...if they care.
I can understand this. Even if the Zune HD doesn't support it, it's a bit of a chore to use multiple pieces of software to manage your library.
Reply With Quote

  #328  
Old 04-05-2010, 07:28 PM
Zuniq Zuniq is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 298
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by erythro42 View Post
i can understand this. Even if the zune hd doesn't support it, it's a bit of a chore to use multiple pieces of software to manage your library.
Amen brother!
Reply With Quote

  #329  
Old 04-06-2010, 05:25 AM
Breizhune's Avatar
Breizhune Breizhune is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Maurepas (78), France
Posts: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuniq View Post
As i wrote, i wait for a stupid flac support inside Zune software...not inside the device...its relatively easy to implement a function like this and many Zune HD users will be able to use their flac libraries directly inside the software with automatic conversion to mp3 at sync. Not a big deal! I bet Zune team can have it ready and running in a couple of hours...if they care.
So let's imagine !

Zune Team or Zune software division (not sure they're same) adds the feature in the software.

Won't you - or other FLAC fans - claim that the implementation of FLAC in the software and not in the ZHD is a pile of s..t ?

Just be honest when you'll answer.
Reply With Quote

  #330  
Old 04-06-2010, 07:35 AM
Zuniq Zuniq is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 298
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Breizhune View Post
So let's imagine !

Zune Team or Zune software division (not sure they're same) adds the feature in the software.

Won't you - or other FLAC fans - claim that the implementation of FLAC in the software and not in the ZHD is a pile of s..t ?

Just be honest when you'll answer.
First of all, it isn't a feature...its an obvious little function which can help many current users of Zune HD and no, i wouldn't claim anything if Microsoft stated that they can't fully support flac...I'm not a kid man, i'm collecting music for over 15 years. A small function like this will change radically the way i work to import music inside Zune HD.
Reply With Quote

  #331  
Old 04-06-2010, 09:54 AM
sonorguy's Avatar
sonorguy sonorguy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 134
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lip View Post
I first asked who had an MP3 player...of the ones who had/have one only 2 people had heard of FLAC and they were both our geeks in engineering...the rest had no clue.
I'd resent that engineering comment if it weren't true
But, even as an engineering student, only one of my friends knows what flac is. So, while I'd really like flac support on the device, others things should definitely be focused on. However, I wholly agree with Zuniq that the software should be able to convert flac files. If someone had bought the remastered box set of the Beatles on the usb flash drive, they would have to convert every song outside of the zune software before adding it to the device. I simply think making the software as much of an all-in-one as possible is something that a lot of users would appreciate, which is exactly why Xvid was so coveted.
Reply With Quote

  #332  
Old 04-06-2010, 10:04 AM
Olley Olley is offline
Ultra Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,894
Default

I agree that since it's a "Free" codec, and would please at least a few Zune HD owners to have supported, that MS should seriously consider putting it in.

I also know from experience that devices with a limit on the RAM they include also have a limit on how complicated/feature laden their software can be. When the desired features start pushing up against the memory limits of the device, some compromises have to be made. The Zune HD is doing much more than just playing music in the music app. The graphics are stunning. Artist/group/etc., info is unique and delightful to have.

It would take some code space to add FLAC support. Since the space for code has limits to it, I do understand why the niche codecs may get left out. This is NOT a cowon S9 or a Samsung P3. Code space in an HD has higher priorities, apparently.
Reply With Quote

  #333  
Old 04-06-2010, 10:41 AM
Breizhune's Avatar
Breizhune Breizhune is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Maurepas (78), France
Posts: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuniq View Post
First of all, it isn't a feature...its an obvious little function which can help many current users of Zune HD and no, i wouldn't claim anything if Microsoft stated that they can't fully support flac...I'm not a kid man, i'm collecting music for over 15 years. A small function like this will change radically the way i work to import music inside Zune HD.
But they did not state it may (n)either (I hate this english rule).

I didn't imagine you were a kid and couldn't think my post would be taken as a charge.

I totally agree with you regarding the point but there's another way to see it. It was just the purpose of my post.

Reply With Quote

  #334  
Old 04-06-2010, 11:08 AM
Marvin the Martian's Avatar
Marvin the Martian Marvin the Martian is offline
Ultra Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: east central NY state
Posts: 10,602
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonorguy View Post
I'd resent that engineering comment if it weren't true
But, even as an engineering student, only one of my friends knows what flac is. So, while I'd really like flac support on the device, others things should definitely be focused on. However, I wholly agree with Zuniq that the software should be able to convert flac files. If someone had bought the remastered box set of the Beatles on the usb flash drive, they would have to convert every song outside of the zune software before adding it to the device. I simply think making the software as much of an all-in-one as possible is something that a lot of users would appreciate, which is exactly why Xvid was so coveted.
Ah yes, the software.....which keeps many people from buying the Zune players in the first place.
__________________
iPod Touch 5G 32GB, Touch 4G 32GB, Clip Sport 8GB. Rockbox-> Clip Zip 4GB, iPod Nano 2G 4GB, iPod 5.5G 80GB
2012 Nexus 7 32GB, Asus MeMoPad 8 16+64GB, LG Optimus G Pro, Nokia Lumia 900 and Lumia 520
Reply With Quote

  #335  
Old 04-06-2010, 11:58 AM
sonorguy's Avatar
sonorguy sonorguy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 134
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin the Martian View Post
Ah yes, the software.....which keeps many people from buying the Zune players in the first place.
To be honest, I really like the software. I've media monkey, winamp, itunes *shudder* and a good deal of other music software to handle my pmps, and the Zune has been my favorite. It's just intuitive to me. Anyhoo, back to the topic.
Reply With Quote

  #336  
Old 04-06-2010, 02:37 PM
Maxis Maxis is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 117
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Breizhune View Post
So let's imagine !

Zune Team or Zune software division (not sure they're same) adds the feature in the software.

Won't you - or other FLAC fans - claim that the implementation of FLAC in the software and not in the ZHD is a pile of s..t ?

Just be honest when you'll answer.
Honest Answer no ..

If the zune "software" accomodates Flac and when its being transferred to the device its transcoded to WMA lossless it would be efficient enough in my opinion. Your moving from one lossless codec to another through the main software application.

Thats enough for me.

My bigger concern is that Custom EQ may not be anywhere on the horizon and Dave apparently has ignored my previous post.

Cheers
Reply With Quote

  #337  
Old 04-06-2010, 02:48 PM
Maxis Maxis is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 117
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olley View Post
I agree that since it's a "Free" codec, and would please at least a few Zune HD owners to have supported, that MS should seriously consider putting it in.

I also know from experience that devices with a limit on the RAM they include also have a limit on how complicated/feature laden their software can be. When the desired features start pushing up against the memory limits of the device, some compromises have to be made. The Zune HD is doing much more than just playing music in the music app. The graphics are stunning. Artist/group/etc., info is unique and delightful to have.

It would take some code space to add FLAC support. Since the space for code has limits to it, I do understand why the niche codecs may get left out. This is NOT a cowon S9 or a Samsung P3. Code space in an HD has higher priorities, apparently.
The thing is .. I would not be asking for the Player itself to be working any harder.. The transcoding would be done on the software end BEFORE being synced as WMA lossless to the player itself.

Basically you would have a Flac library and the file is converted before reaching your zune HD as WMA lossless ..

Thats a fair compromise ... i would think and i think Zuniq would agree with that as well ..


Cheers
Reply With Quote

  #338  
Old 04-06-2010, 04:12 PM
Zuniq Zuniq is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 298
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxis View Post
The thing is .. I would not be asking for the Player itself to be working any harder.. The transcoding would be done on the software end BEFORE being synced as WMA lossless to the player itself.

Basically you would have a Flac library and the file is converted before reaching your zune HD as WMA lossless ..

Thats a fair compromise ... i would think and i think Zuniq would agree with that as well ..


Cheers
Yes, this is what i'm trying to say here. Flac support inside the software (not inside the player).
Reply With Quote

Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:56 AM.