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  #1  
Old 01-01-2010, 09:49 PM
Kiwizzie Kiwizzie is offline
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Red face New To Cowon s9 and Need some help please

Hi
I got a s9 from Santa and have serious problems with JetAudio which came with it. Im running visa and when I launch Jet audio it messages an error encountered and exits.
I can copy music files directly to it via explorer but I cant copy avi files Can anyway help please on how to do this
Thanks in anticipation
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  #2  
Old 01-01-2010, 10:58 PM
trikon000 trikon000 is offline
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You have to switch over to MSC mode to be able to drag and drop avi files. The MTP mode only accepts videos through media player with the drm lic only and those only come in wmv format.
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  #3  
Old 01-02-2010, 10:20 PM
Kiwizzie Kiwizzie is offline
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Thanks for this...Ive done that and now I cant see the music lists I compiled ???any help here I copied them to S9 via media monkey

Regards
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  #4  
Old 01-02-2010, 10:32 PM
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Syndrome Syndrome is offline
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You can't see the stuff you put on via MTP. Go back into MTP mode and delete it then copy it back onto the player in MSC. And then kiss MTP goodbye and be glad you never have to use that horrid technology again.
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Old 01-03-2010, 03:18 PM
Kiwizzie Kiwizzie is offline
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thanks for this...Cowon developers get a zero for innovation here.
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  #6  
Old 01-03-2010, 03:25 PM
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Its the technology of MTP, which I believe was created by microsoft. It has nothing to do with cowon. This very same scenario would happen on a sansa clip. Or any other player that allows you to select MPT or MSC.
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Old 01-04-2010, 01:40 PM
Kiwizzie Kiwizzie is offline
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Thanks Syndrome for all your help. I guess I'm just learning but learning fast. This is a great forum to help though and I appreciate your quick responses here.
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  #8  
Old 01-04-2010, 02:19 PM
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meetooman meetooman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syndrome View Post
Its the technology of MTP, which I believe was created by microsoft. It has nothing to do with cowon. This very same scenario would happen on a sansa clip. Or any other player that allows you to select MPT or MSC.
My Sony is auto dual-mode MTP/MSC. I can copy any file using one protocol or the other (and with Linux) and it always appears on the content list. Many people complains the Sony E430 is always "building library" when you put it on and plug/unplug it to a PC. Maybe what many people sees as a bug is the reason why this player does not care how you transfer your files. The device bravely indexes all it can find on its flash disk whenever something could have been added or deleted.

Please don't blame Microsoft and MTP technology for Cowon's and Sansa's firmware weaknesses.
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  #9  
Old 01-04-2010, 03:17 PM
trikon000 trikon000 is offline
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Syncing in general offends most of us because the whole concept of sync comes from the PDA era where user control was taken away from us in the first place.

You don't understand why people even complain about the "rebuilding library". This time consuming period of "rebuilding library" only gets longer when the capacity of ANY given device gets bigger in capacity. This is part of the MTP technology as you so put it where it DYNAMICALLY rebuilds the library after EVERY sync.

This issue is exponetially increased when you introduce external media support. The hot swapping capability of the port causes a "rebuilding library" depending on how the firmware is coded to handle the behavior.


You consider that the behavior of your sony device is acceptable to you. If we assume it is 32GB in capacity and only takes 30 sec to 1 min (if nearly full).

For a 64GB version of the same device that would be 2x: 1min - 2min.
For a 128GB version of the same device that would be 4x: 2min -4min.


In the real world, the lower end is always near the same, 30 sec. Where as the upper will be what we would get above or even more in some cases. One such example of this is the sansa view, it has a near 4 minutes when you add a 16GB microSDHC, it exceeds 4 minutes when you have a class 2 microSDHC.

This is the whole problem of MTP, syncing has to be scrapped in favor of updating (appending if adding, subtracting in the case of removing) the library if it is going to be on higher capacity devices at all.

This is why people who use MTP, gripe about it. Those of us that don't use it prefer it to dissappear entirely.


If only the idiots at USBIF understood the growing problem MTP will only cause.
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  #10  
Old 01-04-2010, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trikon000 View Post
Syncing in general offends most of us because the whole concept of sync comes from the PDA era where user control was taken away from us in the first place.
I would think that the concept of syncing is coming from backup technologies. The PC is the backup disk and syncing means you don't need to copy the entire collection everytime, but just the modifications. This should not offend but help people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trikon000 View Post
You don't understand why people even complain about the "rebuilding library". This time consuming period of "rebuilding library" only gets longer when the capacity of ANY given device gets bigger in capacity. This is part of the MTP technology as you so put it where it DYNAMICALLY rebuilds the library after EVERY sync.

This issue is exponetially increased when you introduce external media support. The hot swapping capability of the port causes a "rebuilding library" depending on how the firmware is coded to handle the behavior.
I have started to program some MTP transfer tools. So I can tell you that with MTP you send a file with all its tag informations at the same time. This means that after the file transfer the device should need only zero second of file scanning to create its library.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trikon000 View Post
You consider that the behavior of your sony device is acceptable to you.
I just say that with MSC transfer the device has no other way to discover its content than scanning the files. This is not mandatory with MTP. But I understand now that with this scan I avoid the problems Cowon and Sansa users face when they change between MSC and MTP modes and can't see their music anymore. With my Sony I can change the connection mode many times a day.
People mainly complain about the E430 for Sony, I wonder what different solution was found for the top level players to avoid the long Create library wait time, just a very more powerful CPU ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by trikon000 View Post
This is the whole problem of MTP, syncing has to be scrapped in favor of updating (appending if adding, subtracting in the case of removing) the library if it is going to be on higher capacity devices at all.
File syncing and database updating are two different tasks and are both needed. You are misleading readers when you mean that MTP could be inferior MSC to handle large file collection.
  • With MTP you can query the device database to know whether a file is already present (that makes syncing easier).
  • With MTP you send the metadata and the file simultaneously.
  • With MTP deleting a file on a MTP device is also deleting its database entry.
You can't blame MTP for gigabyte music library issues. With MSC a content database management is needed as well. How do you make it faster than MTP with no tag informations to start with?

If you want speed, the only solution is what iriver was doing with the H100 hard drive player series: a database built on the PC and copied to the device. Any kind of database operation performed into the device itself will feel slow compared to the same task on the PC.
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  #11  
Old 01-05-2010, 12:27 AM
trikon000 trikon000 is offline
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More powerful CPUs as your answer? You have to trade off battery life for speed. Have you even seen the battery on the zuneHD, it is smaller than the S9. The trade off with that board is the other chips are average or less.

I didn't infer MTP is inferior to MSC, I said in so many words that the current implementation is crap across the board on devices with MTP. MSC only supports drag and drop from a OS, when did I say anywhere there that managing is better. Management in MSC is ALL on the user's ability to self manage. Which is in most cases what is only needed.

You must have something confused, I am not looking for speed, I am looking for capacity with the least amount of time to manage it accross different OSes.



As for me to blame MTP for my gigabytes library issues, I have terabyte issues where MTP is the least of my problems.

Last edited by trikon000; 01-05-2010 at 12:38 AM.
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