Video Format Problem for Sony

[Roadstr]

Can anyone confirm that these are the only formats that the X will play? It looks like a really sweet player, but there's nothing sweet about encoding for hours. YouTubes video's do not follow these formats strictly, do they? By that I mean heights and widths vary considerable on YouTube, yet the X plays them... umm, maybe not?
This is a show stopper...pardon the pun!

Video Formats (Codec) :
AVC(H.264/AVC) : Media file format: MP4, "Memory Stick" video format
File extension: .mp4, .m4v
Profile: Baseline Profile
Level: up to 1.3
Bit rate: up to 768 kbps
Frame rate: up to 30 fps
Resolution: up to QVGA (320 x 240)
MPEG-4 :
Media file format: MP4, "Memory Stick" video format
File extension: .mp4, .m4v
Profile: Simple Profile
Bit rate: up to 2,500 kbps
Frame rate : up to 30 fps
Resolution: up to QVGA (320 x 240)
Windows Media Video 9 :
Media file format: ASF
File extension: .wmv
Profile: VC1 simple profile, main profile
Bit rate: Simple: max. 1700 kbps,
Main: max. 5000 kbps
Frame rate: up to 30 fps
Resolution: Simple: up to 480 x 270,
Main: up to QVGA (320 x 240)

[Elandal]

With AVC you can go up to 480 x 270.

[h1a8]

Originally Posted by Elandal

With AVC you can go up to 480 x 270.

Are you sure?

[BlindBandit]

Originally Posted by h1a8

Are you sure?

I have two days with the X series & i can tell you that the X series spec Sony post about the video in AVC is a lie, i encode video in 432x240 @CRF 16 in Ripbot264 & my video quality is just stunning, it's like a mico HDTV set in your hand. also it can do 480x272@ 30fps fine in 2-Pass@ 1.5mb or CRF 16 but if you want the best IQ & file size then CRF 16 is for you but this is 1-Pass & make the job more faster & file size can be small from 151mb to 220mb or more if it's a 2hr 30min movie, it can be like 800mb to 900mb but the IQ is just too great. same goes with the 2-Pass in IQ but in 2-Pass you can pick what size of the movie you to be but the IQ still be good as long it's in 768k in 2-Pass mode.

Oh yeah, you don't need to buy no encoding program for the X series because you can get it for free, http://www.videohelp.com/tools/RipBot264

Simple and easy to use GUI. Convert from DVD, Blu-ray or any video to IpoD, PSP, PS3, XBOX360, PC(MP4,MKV), Blu-ray or AVCHD without exotic filters and unnecessary settings. Requires AVisynth, ffdshow, haali media splitter and .Net Framework.

Update: for Roadstr & h1a8, i upload a X series video trailer using my profile for Ripbot264 & 432x240@24fps & 1.53mb for VQ.
http://rapidshare.com/files/25097813...ascar.mp4.html

Also Don't forget to set up the X series OLED screen to 5 so you can see the OLED screen in action

[h1a8]

Originally Posted by BlindBandit

I have two days with the X series & i can tell you that the X series spec Sony post about the video in AVC is a lie, i encode video in 432x240 @CRF 16 in Ripbot264 & my video quality is just stunning, it's like a mico HDTV set in your hand. also it can do 480x272@ 30fps fine in 2-Pass@ 1.5mb or CRF 16 but if you want the best IQ & file size then CRF 16 is for you but this is 1-Pass & make the job more faster & file size can be small from 151mb to 220mb or more if it's a 2hr 30min movie, it can be like 800mb to 900mb but the IQ is just too great. same goes with the 2-Pass in IQ but in 2-Pass you can pick what size of the movie you to be but the IQ still be good as long it's in 768k in 2-Pass mode.

Oh yeah, you don't need to buy no encoding program for the X series because you can get it for free, http://www.videohelp.com/tools/RipBot264


Update: for Roadstr & h1a8, i upload a X series video trailer using my profile for Ripbot264 & 432x240@24fps & 1.53mb for VQ.
http://rapidshare.com/files/25097813...ascar.mp4.html

Also Don't forget to set up the X series OLED screen to 5 so you can see the OLED screen in action

Thank you so much. It wasn't that I didn't believe him (I was hoping that its true) it was just that I don't have one and others have said the contrary and I didn't want to get my hopes up high only to be disappointed.

Thank you for the confirmation though. I might consider the Sony then. I'll wait a little though to see if they drop the price some. I can do this since the Zune is coming. If it wasn't then I would just have to pay the price for this dream player (minus the flac or wma lossless support).

Lastly, I never really could tell the difference in video quality from 1 pass vs. 2 pass. Maybe this is because I always encode my videos with high bitrate (at least 1mb/s). So with AVC I can encode up to 1.5mb/s with 1 pass for Sony? Is that correct? And only 768k only with 2 pass right? What is CFR or CFR 16? Thanks!

[BlindBandit]

Originally Posted by h1a8

Thank you so much.

Lastly, I never really could tell the difference in video quality from 1 pass vs. 2 pass. Maybe this is because I always encode my videos with high bitrate (at least 1mb/s). So with AVC I can encode up to 1.5mb/s with 1 pass for Sony? Is that correct? And only 768k only with 2 pass right? What is CFR or CFR 16? Thanks!

Ok, you can encode up to 1.5mb in 2-Pass or 768kb but CRF is 1-Pass but with better bitrate & does the job faster but the problem is that the file size may get bigger since 2-Pass you can pick the size of the file when CRF you can't. for ex...

CRF 16 is what i use because the lower the number the better bitrate you get, also if i encode a video it take me around 10mins in CRF 16 mode but in 2-Pass may take me 20mins, so CRF is faster but you will not get 768k or 1.5mb all the time in CRF but does the job faster but in 2-Pass, you get the file size you want that about it.

[h1a8]

Originally Posted by BlindBandit

Ok, you can encode up to 1.5mb in 2-Pass or 768kb but CRF is 1-Pass but with better bitrate & does the job faster but the problem is that the file size may get bigger since 2-Pass you can pick the size of the file when CRF you can't. for ex...

CRF 16 is what i use because the lower the number the better bitrate you get, also if i encode a video it take me around 10mins in CRF 16 mode but in 2-Pass may take me 20mins, so CRF is faster but you will not get 768k or 1.5mb all the time in CRF but does the job faster but in 2-Pass, you get the file size you want that about it.

Thanks!

You know what program I find the best (the fastest and the best quality ever). Is DVD Catalyst. I tried many free programs (super, ripbot, etc.) and the quality either didn't look as good or they were not as fast. They have several versions including a free version. They all may do nearly the same (I don't know) but I think the main paid version ($9.99) is far worth it. At least I look at it as a donation for the marvelous efforts of a great program. The program is easy to use (for dummies).
Here's the link:
http://www.tools4movies.com/

[Elandal]

Originally Posted by h1a8

I tried many free programs (super, ripbot, etc.) and the quality either didn't look as good or they were not as fast.

Fast and quality don't always can go hand by hand. The problem with these so "fast" converters is that crucial parts of an encoder can't be configurable and they use at 99% the fastest mode of it resulting in loosing quality a bit, but sure on a small screen maybe you can't see many differences. Anyway, if you have time try to do tests yourself...
I too so reccomend RipBot but also HDConvertToX (http://www.videohelp.com/tools/HDConvertToX) for a more control over audio, like encoding with Nero AAC (the best encoder for me) at higher bitrates...

[BlindBandit]

Originally Posted by Elandal

Fast and quality don't always can go hand by hand. The problem with these so "fast" converters is that crucial parts of an encoder can't be configurable and they use at 99% the fastest mode of it resulting in loosing quality a bit, but sure on a small screen maybe you can't see many differences. Anyway, if you have time try to do tests yourself...
I too so reccomend RipBot but also HDConvertToX (http://www.videohelp.com/tools/HDConvertToX) for a more control over audio, like encoding with Nero AAC (the best encoder for me) at higher bitrates...

Yeah, that why i use RipBot264 because the quality stay the same & not only that but CRF is better then 2-Pass mode since CRF is using the raw video data bitrate & encoding it in real time so you can get the best picture of the raw video, when 2-Pass you get in the first pass the raw video bitrate then the second pass you get the the data bitrate from the first pass & try it best to match it with the file size but take time & make your video file big or smaller.

[Pinot]

Originally Posted by h1a8

Thanks!

You know what program I find the best (the fastest and the best quality ever). Is DVD Catalyst. I tried many free programs (super, ripbot, etc.) and the quality either didn't look as good or they were not as fast. They have several versions including a free version. They all may do nearly the same (I don't know) but I think the main paid version ($9.99) is far worth it. At least I look at it as a donation for the marvelous efforts of a great program. The program is easy to use (for dummies).
Here's the link:
http://www.tools4movies.com/

Hey!

I've tried out your dvd catalyst thing but cant seem to get it to work, could you write down EVERYTHING you did to get it right, by that i mean all the codecs, bitrate etc etc. That would have helped alot. And all the settings you used to get it to work.

Thank's

[Roadstr]

Your quote bellow sums up most users problems..."what program I find the best". All these programs are only front ends for the programs that are doing the heavy lifting in the background. They do not provide a new encoder, but these programs are just a way to make it easier for you to put in the settings that mplayer needs. If you really want to get good at it learn mplayer settings and then you don't have to depend on someone else to do it for you. Software programs don't come out with revisions for nothing! Mplayer is no exception, but if you use it from the command line you are a lot closer to the source.
I use mplayer and ffmpeg on Linux before all these programs were available and may go back to using them on OpenBSD, but Super@ is probably the most user friendly and flexible for Windows. I'm going to try WinFF next.
Read this to get a better idea of what I am talking about.

Originally Posted by h1a8

Thanks!

You know what program I find the best (the fastest and the best quality ever). Is DVD Catalyst. I tried many free programs (super, ripbot, etc.) and the quality either didn't look as good or they were not as fast. They have several versions including a free version. They all may do nearly the same (I don't know) but I think the main paid version ($9.99) is far worth it. At least I look at it as a donation for the marvelous efforts of a great program. The program is easy to use (for dummies).
Here's the link:
http://www.tools4movies.com/

[Roadstr]

Like I said, if this is a problem for you then it's a problem for Sony. Most people don't want to make a hobby of getting their videos to play. Samsung finally got it right on their 3rd try.

Originally Posted by Pinot

Hey!

I've tried out your dvd catalyst thing but cant seem to get it to work, could you write down EVERYTHING you did to get it right, by that i mean all the codecs, bitrate etc etc. That would have helped alot. And all the settings you used to get it to work.

Thank's

[The DarkSide]

Originally Posted by Roadstr

Like I said, if this is a problem for you then it's a problem for Sony. Most people don't want to make a hobby of getting their videos to play. Samsung finally got it right on their 3rd try.

I agree 100%. It's not supposed to be a major hobby trying to put video on a player, and Sony is a ***fail*** in this dept.

[h1a8]

Originally Posted by Pinot

Hey!

I've tried out your dvd catalyst thing but cant seem to get it to work, could you write down EVERYTHING you did to get it right, by that i mean all the codecs, bitrate etc etc. That would have helped alot. And all the settings you used to get it to work.

Thank's

Important! You must install WMP11 (preferably on the included disk) before transfering video files. Otherwise it wouldn't work (at least for me).
h.264 files have aac audio which can't be played on the Sony until wmp11 is installed.

Now start Catalyst 3 and choose Sony (video player device) then go to walkman NWZ. Hit modify and choose 424x240 resolution (best) or lower. Choose framerate 24 (best). Choose bitrate 1000kbps or lower (best).

Optional:
For widescreen from source to widescreen on player go to global settings and Choose remove blackbars from file (leave film unmodified).

For widescreen from source to fullscreen on device choose remove blackbars from device.

I wrote Mitch about the new Sony X and he is building a new profile now for it (432x240 profile).

[kiyu727]

Hey Guys,
I own the x 1050 and tried Ripbot and after a lot of work it finally gave me a vid that worked on my "x" so I thought it would resize it to 480x272 but it simply added black bars T_T

So I tried a lot of other Converters like Media-Coder, HDConvertToX, that cyclist prog which somehow ignores my changes on the resolution (while the quality was pretty poor imo) and wonderhows walkman converter (worst)

Now after many hours Im pretty pissed so I got back to "SUPER" which I consider as a ..uhm well .. average converter ( like how u would refer to Ip'od as an average player) and I simply copied the stats that where posted in the first post (wmv file) and finally it worked ^_^ though I still would be so happy if anyone could get me a proper converter for avc ...



I'll add the SUPER settings file so if anyone needs it
First set to 1500 kbps and 480x270 ^~^ (not recommended though due to big files with tiny improvments...)
And other one with 500kbps

IMPORTANT: When you push convert it asks Simple or main then you click on SIMPLE or otherwise it only suppoert 320x240
I added a zip containing a How to-image if anyone encounters any probs

and here the player (ofc a freeware) http://www.videohelp.com/tools/SUPER

You can mess a bit with the quality settings though
Still the pre-saved vids from sony look a tiny bit better so I guess someone has to find another (better) solution,this one is only for the time till one find something better ^_^ (Im not claiming SUPER gives the best ... but it can batch-convert my anime (up to 50 files per series ... )

PS: BlindBandit, your avatar pwns XD

[Elandal]

Originally Posted by kiyu727

...tried Ripbot and after a lot of work it finally gave me a vid that worked on my "x" so I thought it would resize it to 480x272 but it simply added black bars T_T

I think you selected something wrong here because there isn't any problem with RipBot and especially black bars... You will see only black bars (as on any widescreen TV) obviousley with 2.35:1 or 2.40:1 widescreen aspect ratio movies on top and bottom and left and right with 1.33:1 full screen sources. With 1.85:1 sources all is perfect...
So... go to Properties, set crop to Automatically, then set size to Custom (the one with the aspect ratio inside brackets, not x,xx:1, this is very important!) and low the width until you see 272 in height for full screen (1.33:1) sources, for widescreen (1.85:1, 2.35:1, ecc.) sources set width to 480 and RipBot automatically will set the proper height... (and don't add any black bar!)

HDConvertToX is not very user friendly as RipBot but you can obtain the same excellent result since use the same encoder (x264) with more control over audio.

Originally Posted by kiyu727

I'll add the SUPER settings file so if anyone needs it (set to 1500 kbps and 480x270 ^~^ and other one with 500kbps)

One final thought here... IMHO is always better do constant quality encodings (CRF 20-22) than bitrate for encoder efficiency. Using a bitrate encode of 1500 kpbs, especially on small screens, is only a waste of space.

[kiyu727]

Originally Posted by Elandal

I think you selected something wrong here because there isn't any problem with RipBot and especially black bars... You will see only black bars (as on any widescreen TV) obviousley with 2.35:1 or 2.40:1 widescreen aspect ratio movies on top and bottom and left and right with 1.33:1 full screen sources. With 1.85:1 sources all is perfect...
So... go to Properties, set crop to Automatically, then set size to Custom (the one with the aspect ratio inside brackets, not x,xx:1, this is very important!) and low the width until you see 272 in height for full screen (1.33:1) sources, for widescreen (1.85:1, 2.35:1, ecc.) sources set width to 480 and RipBot automatically will set the proper height... (and don't add any black bar!)

HDConvertToX is not very user friendly as RipBot but you can obtain the same excellent result since use the same encoder (x264) with more control over audio.

But when I tell it to crop it will take parts of the screen away to fit, wouldnt it ? I mean when I told Media Coder to crop it cuts the upper and lower part away to fit the screen and the hard subs were cut away
So I set ripbot to NOT crop my vid.. Hope you can correct me if Im wrong

Originally Posted by Elandal

One final thought here... IMHO is always better do constant quality encodings (CRF 20-22) than bitrate for encoder efficiency. Using a bitrate encode of 1500 kpbs, especially on small screens, is only a waste of space.

Good to know I better set it to about 700 then

[Elandal]

Originally Posted by kiyu727

But when I tell it to crop it will take parts of the screen away to fit, wouldnt it ? I mean when I told Media Coder to crop it cuts the upper and lower part away to fit the screen and the hard subs were cut away
So I set ripbot to NOT crop my vid.. Hope you can correct me if Im wrong

First, forget Media Coder and stay with RipBot since is simpliest and here we don't need others encoders than x264...
Talking of crop, cannot be really needed but for me is always better to do it so that the resulting video (of any aspect ratio) if viewed windowed on PC doesn't have any black bar. Is better to leave to players and devices manage the aspect ratio and so add black bars where needed, with anyway only two exceptions, devices that need and use specified forced resolutions, for example Sony PSP with the TV resolution wich must be 720x480 only or videos that have hard encoded subtitles on the upper/lower black bar, in these cases crop must not be used.
In conclusion, if there isn't any of the two exceptions above, set as sayed crop to Automatically and let RipBot remove any black bar, otherwise, or if you want anyway the simpliest thing for all sources, do not crop and set size to PSP.iPhone 480x272...

[kiyu727]

But you should tell the people to set it to Baseline 1.3 since in first post it says it only can handle up to level 1.3 and there isnt a preset with 1.3 (was a big prob to me till I changed it )

Originally Posted by Elandal

.....
In conclusion, if there isn't any of the two exceptions above, set as sayed crop to Automatically and let RipBot remove any black bar, otherwise, or if you want anyway the simpliest thing for all sources, do not crop and set size to PSP.iPhone 480x272...

IF I set it to no crop and resize to PSP.Iphone it actually adds black bars although there werent any black bars before and it doesnt resize which was my prob from the start ...
same goes for settings: resize to PSP.Iphone with auto-crop .. it fu*cking adds those black bars instead of resizing >_<

[h1a8]

DVD catalyst is for dummies. Its fast and easy and give great quality at a fast speed.
Its for those who know almost nothing about encoding or converting videos.
It has options of removing the black bars and modifying the video to fit the players screen (full screen) and another option of removing the black bars while leaving the video unmodified while adding new black bars so that whole video fits the screen.

Mitch is building a 432x240 profile now for the Sony X. Till then u can use 424x240 or 480x272.