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Old 03-30-2008, 11:53 AM
frankmcma frankmcma is offline
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Arrow Right Any place to get Sansa audio quality comparisons? (rant)...

Here is my rant..been trying to find info on different chips and their sound specs/quality between the different Sansa models...

The thing is..the e200r I have now (V1) has great sound..mainly because it has a wider frequency response. So if you use higher-end headphones you'll get fantastic sound. Compared to the iPod, which has a very small frequency range, this is great news. Thats why for great quality I stick with Sansa.

New chips come out, new Sansa models, but i never see any real testing of sound quality in reviews aside from brief anecdotal comments. Or even a list of the specs of the sound quality.

Typically most reviews spend paragraphs on menus, but when it comes to sound quality, usually its a sentence or two: "sound quality is very good..I have xxxx headphones and its nice and loud". I mean sound quality has to be one of the most important and ever changing features with new models, so I wish there was more of a actual discussion on this.

Sandisk does not help much..as most of the time frequency specs are not listed anywhere. I have the e200 and want to spend to upgrade to a newer player..but again...not much info to really find out which of the new ones have better sounding audio processors. What I am looking for is examples like this ipod spec:

Frequency response: 20Hz to 20,000Hz

Any links or suggestions? Even a chart that merely shows the different audio specs for the different Sansa players?

Thanks! (I'll calm down now...)

Frank
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  #2  
Old 03-30-2008, 01:51 PM
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Sound quality is based on opinion. Therefore it cannot be compared on a large scale. Each person and type of music requires a different setup for optimal sound quality. It is almost impossible for one person to say what you will think is the best because each person has a different ear for things.
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Old 03-31-2008, 01:03 AM
frankmcma frankmcma is offline
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With my topic, sound quality is not art..its science. it has to do with the width of the frequency..the wider the range the more highs and lows you will hear. An example, say with headphones, most common headphones (like those around $10) have a range like this:

Frequency response: 20Hz to 20,000Hz

Headphones in the $100-$200 range typically are closer to this:

Frequency Response: 6Hz - 23,000 Hz

Think of 6 as the lows (deep bass) and the 23 as the highs (treble). Now with the first example the headphones literally cut off the highs and lows. You get decent, average sound. But not a wide spectrum. The second example above you get much more of a full range with highs and lows.

Now I am not sure of what the range of the different Sansa units are, trying to find out, but I know the iPod is 20Hz to 20,000Hz, its listed right on their tech specs page on Apple.com. And their earbuds, same range.

The funny part is, when people buy $200 ear buds (6Hz - 23,000 Hz) for their iPods (20Hz to 20,000Hz). Kinda like hooking an HD screen to a standard definition cable box. You miss so much of the highs and lows. It'll sound a little better (mainly better parts in $200 buds as opposed to a standard ipod buds) but you still are only hearing 20-20HZ.

Not to knock the iPod..just an example. Sansa players have a wider range than 20Hz to 20,000Hz due to advanced chips but its tough to find out what the frequency range of the different units are. Hence why it would great to cover this is in a review.
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Old 06-01-2008, 10:45 AM
frankmcma frankmcma is offline
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Any place where these are listed yet? Still wondering what frequency responses are supported with the latest Sansa's. Thanks!

Frank
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  #5  
Old 06-01-2008, 10:51 AM
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I do not if this will help, but here are two links: http://daniel.haxx.se/sansa/v2.html and http://daniel.haxx.se/sansa/view.html.
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Old 06-01-2008, 11:07 AM
frankmcma frankmcma is offline
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Ah cool! That is a good start. I am trying to find reviews that mention the audio specs, frequency stats and chip used to figure out the quality, those pages help.

Any others out there? Mainly reviews that go over the audio specs. Thanks!
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  #7  
Old 06-01-2008, 11:17 AM
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Rockbox.org has lots of the chip info for players that people want Rockbox or have Rockbox on them.
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Old 06-06-2008, 01:29 PM
Schweppes7T4 Schweppes7T4 is offline
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um... just to wonder, what kind of mp3 file still has a frequency range that low? i thought cutting out anything below 20 and about 20k was standard for mp3s. even on 320bit. i could be wrong though.
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  #9  
Old 09-28-2008, 11:34 AM
TacticalPenguin TacticalPenguin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmcma View Post
With my topic, sound quality is not art..its science. it has to do with the width of the frequency..the wider the range the more highs and lows you will hear. An example, say with headphones, most common headphones (like those around $10) have a range like this:

Frequency response: 20Hz to 20,000Hz

Headphones in the $100-$200 range typically are closer to this:

Frequency Response: 6Hz - 23,000 Hz

Think of 6 as the lows (deep bass) and the 23 as the highs (treble). Now with the first example the headphones literally cut off the highs and lows. You get decent, average sound. But not a wide spectrum. The second example above you get much more of a full range with highs and lows.

Now I am not sure of what the range of the different Sansa units are, trying to find out, but I know the iPod is 20Hz to 20,000Hz, its listed right on their tech specs page on Apple.com. And their earbuds, same range.

The funny part is, when people buy $200 ear buds (6Hz - 23,000 Hz) for their iPods (20Hz to 20,000Hz). Kinda like hooking an HD screen to a standard definition cable box. You miss so much of the highs and lows. It'll sound a little better (mainly better parts in $200 buds as opposed to a standard ipod buds) but you still are only hearing 20-20HZ.

Not to knock the iPod..just an example. Sansa players have a wider range than 20Hz to 20,000Hz due to advanced chips but its tough to find out what the frequency range of the different units are. Hence why it would great to cover this is in a review.
IEMs in the $100-200 range generally use armatures which generally are a bit more restricted on range compared to dynamic drivers. And a good human ear can only hear 20-20khz, so 6-19 and 200001-23000 is almost pointless. That's why MP3s drop anything outside of that range.
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Old 09-29-2008, 07:06 AM
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Found this interesting: rrequency range of human hearing and wiki here.
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  #11  
Old 10-08-2008, 11:21 PM
Alohamora Alohamora is offline
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There's a lot more to sound quality than just frequency range. As somone else mentioned, average human hearing for a young person is 20hz to 20,000hz. I'm old enough that I've lost some high frequency hearing, but I can hear low tones down to around 17hz.

More important (IMO) is noise and distortion characteristics. Good channel separation helps too.

I'm interested in subjective answers to the question of Sansa audio quality from anyone who owns more than one Sansa.

I have 4 Sansas, the Clip is the best, I think the C240 is next and then e260 and M240, but it's hard for me to decide netween the E and M players.

Where would you rank them, I'm expecially interested in the Fuze, View and Express?
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  #12  
Old 10-08-2008, 11:26 PM
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Even most younger people are lucky to hear 20kHz...and with the rolloff associated with MP3 compression, it's even less of a priority to have good response that high in the frequency spectrum IMHO...
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  #13  
Old 10-08-2008, 11:36 PM
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The Clip and Fuze has the same SoC. The View has the GoForce 6100 with an AMS chip for audio. The Express has a Sigmatel SoC. The e200, c200, and m200 have different versions. So those are SoC's.

I will say Fuze then View then Express, but that is my opinion.
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Old 10-08-2008, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmcma View Post
With my topic, sound quality is not art..its science. it has to do with the width of the frequency..the wider the range the more highs and lows you will hear. An example, say with headphones, most common headphones (like those around $10) have a range like this:

Frequency response: 20Hz to 20,000Hz

Headphones in the $100-$200 range typically are closer to this:

Frequency Response: 6Hz - 23,000 Hz

Think of 6 as the lows (deep bass) and the 23 as the highs (treble). Now with the first example the headphones literally cut off the highs and lows. You get decent, average sound. But not a wide spectrum. The second example above you get much more of a full range with highs and lows.

Now I am not sure of what the range of the different Sansa units are, trying to find out, but I know the iPod is 20Hz to 20,000Hz, its listed right on their tech specs page on Apple.com. And their earbuds, same range.

The funny part is, when people buy $200 ear buds (6Hz - 23,000 Hz) for their iPods (20Hz to 20,000Hz). Kinda like hooking an HD screen to a standard definition cable box. You miss so much of the highs and lows. It'll sound a little better (mainly better parts in $200 buds as opposed to a standard ipod buds) but you still are only hearing 20-20HZ.

Not to knock the iPod..just an example. Sansa players have a wider range than 20Hz to 20,000Hz due to advanced chips but its tough to find out what the frequency range of the different units are. Hence why it would great to cover this is in a review.
dude...no one (human) can hear 6Hz....try waving your hand back and forth 6 times in a second....thats about 6Hz
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Old 10-14-2008, 09:18 AM
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Human hearing is most sensitive to the frequencies of the typical female voice.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...nd/eqloud.html
http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/music/dB/loudness.html
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Old 10-14-2008, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curiouswonderer View Post
dude...no one (human) can hear 6Hz....try waving your hand back and forth 6 times in a second....thats about 6Hz
yes, no one can hear that...the reason phones have that range is because of the rolloff at the boundaries...there's a sloped line where the response rolls off at the edges...if that rolloff was prevalent at 20Hz and 20kHz, then you're losing response that you could actually hear. By moving it to 6Hz and 23kHz, you're allowing for a better chance of a flat frequency response through the range of 20Hz to 20kHz.
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Old 04-20-2009, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TacticalPenguin View Post
IEMs in the $100-200 range generally use armatures which generally are a bit more restricted on range compared to dynamic drivers. And a good human ear can only hear 20-20khz, so 6-19 and 200001-23000 is almost pointless. That's why MP3s drop anything outside of that range.
I may be wrong here, but I thought that single digit frequencies aren't heard as much as felt. With some good cans the Bass down there will be thumping your head giving you a feeling of force. I could be totally wrong.
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Old 04-20-2009, 09:30 PM
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i guess it's kind of true up until a certain frequency. for example you kind of "feel" a tv humming, but 6Hz is still way too low to even "feel". i think that it's probably a roll off thing, like sumx said.

also, this is an OLD thread....check the last post date
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Old 04-21-2009, 12:07 AM
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it's practically impossible to have a perfect cutoff at the upper and lower boundaries...thus, roll off is sloped...if they wanted the slope to end at 20Hz, it would have to start at a frequency above that and thus you'd be rolling off through part of the audible range. If you push the end of that rolloff back to 6Hz, you're more likely to have less rolloff around the 20Hz range and thus, the audible ranges will be preserved with a relatively flat frequency response. And yes, this is old! lol
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