Nomad software won't recognize my Jukebox Zen Xtra 60G

[Bluejay]

I have had a Nomad Jukebox Zen Xtra 30G for four years with few problems. I bought this 60G (model #DAP-HD0011) that was otherwise exactly like the old one. The already-installed Nomad software on my computer would not recognize it. I plugged it in and it said "Not connected". Every other appropriate software I have offered to communicate with it -- Media Player, Winamp, RealAudio.

I did a lot of digging on the net and found the instructions for doing things like downgrading Windows Media Player (did that), re-installing the drivers and firmware (did that), in short I followed all the directions and Nomad Explorer still wouldn't recognize the new player, nor would Notmad (it said there was no device running the appropriate drivers/firmware).

The player came with Media Source Organizer and I went ahead and installed that. It opens up all right and reads my hard drive, but doesn't recognize the player!

Just to get started putting music on the new player, I chose Winamp and worked with its media library. It does work and the player sounds beautiful once I actually get the songs on there. Now, I don't mind using Winamp but it's a kludge compared to either Notmad or the old four-pane Nomad organizer. The way Winamp arranges things, it's hard to find what you're looking for, especially if you have 64 billion tracks like what I have. It also crashes repeatedly in the middle of doing something routine like putting tracks in a playlist.

I hope someone has some ideas, because this is driving me bughouse. Thanks, Jay

[CrowdAds]

[BobbyRS]

Welcome Jay. How did you get the firmware installed if the Zen wasn't bring detected? What firmware version is installed on the Zen? Check Device Manager for the status of the driver. It sounds as though the driver is fine since you can access the Zen using other software though. Have you made sure to download and install the latest Xtra software?

[Bluejay]

How do I find out what firmware is installed on the player itself?

I went into Rescue Mode. It says:
Boot v1.4, HW v0.0.1

I did a "cleanup", but hesitate to "reload OS" without fully understanding exactly what to do -- I might lose even the communication I've got with the thing.

This forum member sounds like he's got something of the same problem:
http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum...ad.php?t=18327

As far as I know, the drivers I have are the latest ones that will work with a Nomad Jukebox Zen Xtra. Creative doesn't support this player anymore, so I figure I'm on my own. I was lucky to find you guys.

I tried both of these:

JB3MV2_PCWDRV_US_1_30_03.EXE
JB3MV2_PCWDRV_US_2_01_00.EXE

Any attempt to run a firmware update is met with "Your player is not connected. Please connect your player." Needless to say, I tried a reset, rebooting the computer, etc., to no avail. I have had the player plugged into two of my three USBs, all of which I know to be working. I also went into maintenance mode and formatted the player. No dice.

The computer itself recognizes the player, and calls it "My Jukebox" in explorer. I can't just drag and drop files or folders into the player because it says "Cannot copy - the device has either stopped responding or been disconnected."

This is a beautiful player in great shape and having put some music on it via Winamp's kludgy interface, it sounds gorgeous. I just need the Nomad Explorer (or Notmad, one or the other) to work. Notmad says "Notmad detected no connected players running the Creative driver 1.x firmware." Thanks, looking forward to hearing from you.

[Bluejay]

Well, I went ahead and did it, following some instructions I found elsewhere on this forum (except I already had windows media player rolled back to v.10):

http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum...ead.php?t=9829

I now have a dumb hunk of iron. The computer still recognizes it, offers to interface it with RealAudio, Winamp etc., but those programs no longer recognize it.

The player now consistently says "Firmware problem" and boots in rescue mode.

I even tried running the (copied) installation disk that came with the player. Everything installed just fine until I plugged in the player and was told to please connect a player.

This happened both on my PC (WinXP Pro SP3) and laptop (Vista). I'm even being careful to use the USB cable that came with the player.

I've noticed that all these firmware installation files are for firmware upgrades, when what I need is the original firmware to start with. I am now looking for a bittorrent of the original installation disk.

[BobbyRS]

Originally Posted by Bluejay

How do I find out what firmware is installed on the player itself?

Well, it should show if you are booted up into the firmware, but it doesn't sound like you have firmware on the Xtra anymore. The last firmware you installed, was it the regular firmware or did you ever load the MTP (PFS = PlaysForSure) firmware? If you did load the PFS/MTP firmware, you don't need any if the drivers from Creative. Actually you wouldn't need any software from Creative. Since you Xtra would be an MTP device, it would show up as a Portable Device under My Computer and you could either drag-and-drop files or use a sync manager like WMP.

Originally Posted by Bluejay

I did a "cleanup", but hesitate to "reload OS" without fully understanding exactly what to do -- I might lose even the communication I've got with the thing.

The Reload Firmware option will erase the currently installed firmware to allow you to install a fresh version.

Originally Posted by Bluejay

I tried both of these:

JB3MV2_PCWDRV_US_1_30_03.EXE
JB3MV2_PCWDRV_US_2_01_00.EXE

Like I said, if you have ever loaded the PFS firmware, you won't need these. If you haven't, the v2.01.00 is the one you would use.

Originally Posted by Bluejay

Any attempt to run a firmware update is met with "Your player is not connected. Please connect your player." Needless to say, I tried a reset, rebooting the computer, etc., to no avail. I have had the player plugged into two of my three USBs, all of which I know to be working. I also went into maintenance mode and formatted the player. No dice.

Check Device Manager to see if the driver is even loading when connected for the Xtra. If the Xtra isn't being detected and not having the driver load, no software will detect it. If the Xtra is being detected and the driver is loading without error, uninstall all Creative software, including any drivers you have installed.

Originally Posted by Bluejay

(except I already had windows media player rolled back to v.10)

Make sure the WMP11 runtimes are uninstalled as well.

Originally Posted by Bluejay

(I've noticed that all these firmware installation files are for firmware upgrades, when what I need is the original firmware to start with. I am now looking for a bittorrent of the original installation disk.

That's not needed. The firmware versions from Creative's site are all you need. They are called upgrades (in terms of versions), but are full versions.

[Bluejay]

"The Reload Firmware option will erase the currently installed firmware to allow you to install a fresh version."

That's what I thought, that's why I went ahead and did the "Reboot OS" procedure after researching some more.

"The last firmware you installed, was it the regular firmware or did you ever load the MTP (PFS = PlaysForSure) firmware?"

I had never been able to load any firmware. I have several firmwares, but each told me my player was not connected.

My player was recognized by name under device manager on both machines and still was even after my having deleted the OS.

Here is how I fixed it: I followed your directions about removing the Windows Media Player Runtime 11. I had completely forgotten about this being still there after a rollback!

I then installed JB3MV2_PCWDRV_US_2_01_00.EXE as you instructed. This time, when I reconnected the player post-install, it said "Found new hardware, MTP device, your new hardware is installed and ready to use." That's the same thing it said the very first time I connected it. The player still said "Firmware problem" when I rebooted it, but I checked Device Manager again and it was still recognized by name.

I tried firmware JBZen2PCFW_1_11_01.exe and was told my player was not connected, but ZenXtraP4SAudible_PCFW_LB_2_10_03.exe said I already had this software on the player and did I want to proceed. I said I did, and once the player was sufficiently charged for its liking, the firmware installed okay. The player flashed a display I didn't get a good look at and is now booting to the normal menu and responding as it did formerly. !!!!!

It seems that this is the firmware it wants to use. I've read that a lot of people have problems with PlaysForSure, so maybe that's why it's acting so persnickety.

"Since your Xtra would be an MTP device, it would show up as a Portable Device under My Computer and you could either drag-and-drop files or use a sync manager like WMP."

Right! The first time I connected the player, the computer recognized it as an MTP device, and it did appear under My Computer. I was never able to drag and drop files, however, as when I tried I got a message that the device was not connected. Windows Media Player let me put files on, but didn't let me create or maintain playlists. (It might do so now that that #11 Runtime is gone) My best luck was with Winamp's Media Library, other than the fact that it crashed every five minutes.

Deleting WMP 11 Runtime seems to have cleared up everything. I really just wanted to be able to use Nomad Explorer or Notmad Explorer with this player, same as like my old one. Nomad Explorer still says "Not connected", and I would like to find some way to get it to work because frankly I found that four-pane viewer exceptionally useful, but Notmad works, recognizing the player in MTP mode.

THANK YOU!!! I now have a working (except with Nomad Explorer) player!!!

[BobbyRS]

Originally Posted by Bluejay

I had never been able to load any firmware. I have several firmwares, but each told me my player was not connected.

Well, there had to be firmware loaded on it previously at some point in time. Whether that firmware was the PFS firmware or the non-PFS firmware is the reason for asking because depending on which was installed will be dependant on how the Zen gets detected.

Originally Posted by Bluejay

My player was recognized by name under device manager on both machines and still was even after my having deleted the OS.

Like it should. The Zen being recognized correctly is not dependant on the firmware installed.

Originally Posted by Bluejay

Here is how I fixed it: I followed your directions about removing the Windows Media Player Runtime 11. I had completely forgotten about this being still there after a rollback!

Those runtimes will get you every time.

Originally Posted by Bluejay

I then installed JB3MV2_PCWDRV_US_2_01_00.EXE as you instructed. This time, when I reconnected the player post-install, it said "Found new hardware, MTP device, your new hardware is installed and ready to use." That's the same thing it said the very first time I connected it.

This sort of tells me that the Zen had the PFS/MTP firmware installed last since it was detected as an MTP device.

Originally Posted by Bluejay

Deleting WMP 11 Runtime seems to have cleared up everything.

Great! Good to hear.

Originally Posted by Bluejay

THANK YOU!!! I now have a working (except with Nomad

Originally Posted by Bluejay

Explorer) player!!!

No problem. See this thread for help with the Nomad Explorer issue.

[Bluejay]

Thank you. I read the thread you suggested, and I did locate the page on the Creative Website where they still offer some downloads for this player.

http://support.creative.com/Products...me=MP3+Players

Which one do I need? I downloaded CMS_PCAPP_LB_3_30_21.exe but it apparently was not the right one. All these MediaSource programs install properly, they just don't recognize my player in any of the windows. It's as if it didn't exist.

Meanwhile, Winamp and Notmad both crash way too frequently for my frustration level. (And maybe I don't know how to tweak the settings properly, but Notmad can be really fascist about tags.) I think part of the issue is that I need a new processor, but I rarely had crashes with the old Nomad Explorer.

[BobbyRS]

I don't believe you can use the Nomad Explorer software any longer since you have turned your Xtra to an MTP device. You can use the Media Explorer/MediaSource. You can download the entire package from here.

[Bluejay]

Thanks! I downloaded and installed that software. It has its limitations, I see. It also crashes, with alarming frequency. I might need a new processor (although this frequent crashing only happens when using programs that talk to the Nomad -- Winamp, Notmad, etc -- and Winamp does not crash when I'm just using it to play music or streaming audio).

Is there a way to roll back the firmware on the Nomad? When I tried to install earlier firmware, it wouldn't acknowledge it. It only acknowledged the P4S one. I wrote email to the woman who sold it to me. Apparently she was using it with WinXP as I do, but Media Player 9.

At least it is working, and in between crashes I've been able to put some songs on and it sounds great.

[coachop94]

No you can not go back to the old firmware.

[BobbyRS]

Like coachop94 mentions, once you install the PlaysForSure firmware and turn the Zen into an MTP device, you cannot revert it back to a non-MTP device with earlier firmware. Keep in mind that now that you do have the Zen as an MTP device, you can drag-and-drop files to it using only Windows Explorer. The Zen should show up as a Portable Device.

[Bluejay]

Originally Posted by BobbyRS

Like coachop94 mentions, once you install the PlaysForSure firmware and turn the Zen into an MTP device, you cannot revert it back to a non-MTP device with earlier firmware. Keep in mind that now that you do have the Zen as an MTP device, you can drag-and-drop files to it using only Windows Explorer. The Zen should show up as a Portable Device.

Well, it initially installed/recognized as an MTP device, so my guess is that this is what the previous owner had it as. However, I have indeed had my best luck putting files on in plain Windows Explorer, and it does offer playlist management, although you can't sort by album, genre or year, etc., which I do need frequently. For that, I need Notmad to stop crashing. I have written to them about it as I have begun to think it is not a processor problem. Thank you for all your help. I'll be back with more exciting updates

[coachop94]

You can make & edit playlists with the Zen Xtra Media Explorer. When you connect the player if your Autoplay window opens select the Creative Media Explorer option & from there the make playlists. It's the only Creative software I really like & use frequently. There is also an option to edit the playlists too.

[BobbyRS]

Originally Posted by Bluejay

Well, it initially installed/recognized as an MTP device, so my guess is that this is what the previous owner had it as.

How the Zen is recognized as an MTP device or the Zen is completely defined by Windows. With the Zen, you either have the PFS/MTP firmware installed or you don't. When the Zen is detected as a generic MTP Device, this almost always indicates a driver or MTP issue within Windows. If the Zen is detected an MTP Device, the software will not recognize it correctly regardless if the Zen is usable (Windows Explorer drag-and-drop).

Originally Posted by Bluejay

although you can't sort by album, genre or year, etc., which I do need frequently.

Sure you can. By default it may not show. You have to tell Windows Explorer to show these fields and then you can sort by them.:

View -> Choose Details (Click on the fileds you want to show)

Originally Posted by Bluejay

Thank you for all your help. I'll be back with more exciting updates

No problem.

[Bluejay]

Okay, I get it. Here are a few more questions for using the Nomad with Windows Explorer:

* Using both my computers (one uses Vista, the other is still good old XP Pro SP3) I upload tracks using Winamp media library and/or Windows Explorer. Most of the time, when I view the player under "Music" in Windows Explorer, it looks as if Explorer displays each artist in a folder, then subfolder by album, then the songs. Why does it do that, and more important, I've found a whole bunch of tracks in there that do not have a folder even though they are appropriately tagged. How can I get them into folders? And, how can I get Explorer to display everything that is on the player in one long list, non-foldered?

* How can I get Vista's Windows Explorer to stop showing me all this stuff in giant-economy-size icons but instead use "Details" each time? I tried telling it what I wanted in Folder Options, but it seems to ignore it. Is that just Vista being stupid? Thanks.

[BobbyRS]

Originally Posted by Bluejay

Using both my computers (one uses Vista, the other is still good old XP Pro SP3) I upload tracks using Winamp media library and/or Windows Explorer. Most of the time, when I view the player under "Music" in Windows Explorer, it looks as if Explorer displays each artist in a folder, then subfolder by album, then the songs. Why does it do that, and more important, I've found a whole bunch of tracks in there that do not have a folder even though they are appropriately tagged. How can I get them into folders? And, how can I get Explorer to display everything that is on the player in one long list, non-foldered?

I can't speak for Winamp (never used), but when using Windows Explorer, the files will be stored and displayed (in Windows Explorer) the way they were created (copied/moved) to the Zen.

Originally Posted by Bluejay

* How can I get Vista's Windows Explorer to stop showing me all this stuff in giant-economy-size icons but instead use "Details" each time? I tried telling it what I wanted in Folder Options, but it seems to ignore it. Is that just Vista being stupid? Thanks.

I've used Vista for a long time now and for the most part (and time), Vista keeps my settings for the display detail when set. I have noticed that it does seem to foget them every now and then when using a removable device.