android
  #21  
Old 12-03-2008, 12:41 PM
Llorean Llorean is offline
Rockbox Developer
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 397
Default

Daveybaby: We react to feature requests with "Learn to code and do it yourself" because that's what we did.

Most linuxes, and openoffice, are run as commercial products. They have a vested interest in performing feature requests as it may earn them more money.

Rockbox doesn't earn money, or attempt to. We don't accept feature requests, period. That's why there's no feature request section. We have a section of the forum for people to post their feature IDEAS, but it's not labeled "requests" and we do not interpret them as such.

We learned to program, and did it ourselves. Why shouldn't anyone else, if they really think their idea is good enough and we don't agree with them?

If we had a feature request section, I might understand how you could have a different expectation, since that would use be inviting requests and then immediately telling them to go away and do it themselves. But we explicitly do NOT have a place for "requests."
Reply With Quote

Advertisement [Remove Advertisement]

  #22  
Old 12-03-2008, 05:53 PM
Daveybaby Daveybaby is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 106
Default

But youre still going to get them regardless, because you've gone and released a piece of software. And then you went and created a publicly accessible forum. Comes with the territory.

Its like that movie. "If you build it, they will come... and complain."

Quote:
We learned to program, and did it ourselves. Why shouldn't anyone else, if they really think their idea is good enough and we don't agree with them?
Because people dont have time, or the skill, or the inclination. If you need some plumbing doing you can spend 6 months learning plumbing... or you can just call a plumber. Plumbers who download rockbox and would like a new feature arent going to spend a year learning to program just so they can have a different coloured font or something. So they (quite reasonably) ask the people who know what theyre doing if they will do it (hopefully asking nicely since youre not getting paid). The answer 'learn to code and do it yourself' basically comes across as "cant be bothered, fuck off" to a non-coder.

Which is totally your right to do. Just dont kid yourself that its actually a helpful or practical response.

Also, take 5 minutes to imagine what it would actually be like on these forums if everyone who visited here really *did* try to modify the code themselves. You'd spend half your time trying to explain to people what 'compilation' is. Jesus, just imagine how many people would brick their sansas and come here to moan
Reply With Quote

  #23  
Old 12-03-2008, 06:05 PM
recrapit recrapit is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Llorean View Post
...But we explicitly do NOT have a place for "requests."
Does "we" refer to ABi.com or RB.org? I'm assuming the answer is RB.org. Since this isn't the RB.org forum, an open discussion of ideas, critiques, or even dislikes wouldn't seem so contentious. Or would the discussions be less contentious if done in the custom builds section?

The topic of RB layout/design/coding is a refreshing change from the usual beginner's how-to questions (not that I mind those). Particularly since the board has been pretty quiet for months.
Reply With Quote

  #24  
Old 12-03-2008, 06:11 PM
saratoga saratoga is offline
Rockbox Developer / Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,608
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveybaby View Post
But youre still going to get them regardless, because you've gone and released a piece of software. And then you went and created a publicly accessible forum. Comes with the territory.
Well then its easy enough to tell them to go away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveybaby View Post
Because people dont have time, or the skill, or the inclination. If you need some plumbing doing you can spend 6 months learning plumbing... or you can just call a plumber. Plumbers who download rockbox and would like a new feature arent going to spend a year learning to program just so they can have a different coloured font or something.
We have no problem with people hiring programmers to work on Rockbox. But if they do that, they should obviously have the programmer contact us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveybaby View Post
So they (quite reasonably) ask the people who know what theyre doing if they will do it (hopefully asking nicely since youre not getting paid). The answer 'learn to code and do it yourself' basically comes across as "cant be bothered, fuck off" to a non-coder.
People who react like this are basically children, so who cares what they think? I mean anyone who gets angry that they don't get a free lunch is basically a child. No adult or person of character thinks this way.

Personally I'm inclined to politely dismiss these people and move on. Its really the best you can do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveybaby View Post
Also, take 5 minutes to imagine what it would actually be like on these forums if everyone who visited here really *did* try to modify the code themselves. You'd spend half your time trying to explain to people what 'compilation' is. Jesus, just imagine how many people would brick their sansas and come here to moan
I think this would be great. Forums like this should help people who want to modify their code. Its really what they're for. I mean I guess the downside of the forums being useful is that they're be a lot of posts, but thats hardly a downside. I'd gladly put up with more threads if it meant this place was even more useful.
Reply With Quote

  #25  
Old 12-03-2008, 06:20 PM
Llorean Llorean is offline
Rockbox Developer
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 397
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveybaby View Post
But youre still going to get them regardless, plumbing doing you can spend 6 months learning plumbing... or you can just call a plumber.
So call a programmer, and pay him to do it. Problem solved.

But don't get upset with us when we politely say "Do it yourselves." If I said "Fuck off, I don't have time for you," sure you can get a little irritated. If I instead offer you suggestions on how you can do it yourself, say "Thanks. I don't have the time, but I won't bother you further."

It's a completely practical response.

I challenge you to go a plumber who's fixed your house in the past, and explain to him that you'd really like him to replace the fixtures in your sink, for free, because you don't have the time to learn how. When he refuses, pester him about it every day. How long do you think he'll put up with it?

Would you rather we just say "no" and NOT offer tips on how to do it yourself? That's the other alternative.
Reply With Quote

  #26  
Old 12-03-2008, 06:22 PM
Llorean Llorean is offline
Rockbox Developer
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 397
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by recrapit View Post
Does "we" refer to ABi.com or RB.org? I'm assuming the answer is RB.org. Since this isn't the RB.org forum, an open discussion of ideas, critiques, or even dislikes wouldn't seem so contentious. Or would the discussions be less contentious if done in the custom builds section?

The topic of RB layout/design/coding is a refreshing change from the usual beginner's how-to questions (not that I mind those). Particularly since the board has been pretty quiet for months.
Well, the point is that they were told how to do it unofficially. They requested official change, so yes, "we" does refer to Rockbox.org. They can discuss it all they want here, about how to do it for themselves. Whenever they get to "You guys should do it" where "you guys" means "Rockbox.org" though, it becomes a feature request and not merely discussion. And then we can either ignore it completely, or we can give an honest response. We've tried to give honest responses, but apparently "You can however do it yourself" is some sort of insult in this land and inspires people to say we're being too harsh.
Reply With Quote

  #27  
Old 12-03-2008, 07:59 PM
rancid's Avatar
rancid rancid is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: UK, Somerset
Posts: 111
Default

Maybe a good answer to this topic would be to:

Add a feature request on the rb.org forums.
(if it has not already been requested)

Or:

If you want to learn to code and develop RB then the menu could be a good place to start.
__________________
Backups are for Losers !!!
Reply With Quote

  #28  
Old 12-03-2008, 08:11 PM
saratoga saratoga is offline
Rockbox Developer / Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,608
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Llorean
We don't accept feature requests, period. That's why there's no feature request section. We have a section of the forum for people to post their feature IDEAS, but it's not labeled "requests" and we do not interpret them as such.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rancid View Post
Maybe a good answer to this topic would be to:

Add a feature request on the rb.org forums.
(if it has not already been requested)
Don't do this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rancid View Post
If you want to learn to code and develop RB then the menu could be a good place to start.
This is such a good idea it was the first reply to the thread!
Reply With Quote

Reply

Tags
games, menu, podcasts

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:30 AM.