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Old 02-05-2010, 03:41 PM
glove4 glove4 is offline
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Default New Sansa players...?

Has there been any rumors floating around of new Sansa players in development? Judging by the fact that the sansa fuze and view are both two years old or more, I wonder if its worth waiting for a newer Fuze or View model but I don't see info at all on anything coming out this year other than the clip+ which is great in any event. Or should I just go with the fuze or view regardless based on the if it aint broke don't fix it idea, and not worry about updated models of which there is no word of anyway? Sorry if there is another thread on this, I am on my phone and its a pain doing thread searches.
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Old 02-21-2010, 06:24 AM
m_k m_k is offline
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Given their new "value"-thrust (i.e., delivering cheap stuff rather than trying to compete with the big players) I'd not hold any great hopes of newer products being BETTER than existing stuff. Less expensive, perhaps -- but, at what cost?

As to the Fuze Vs. View, it MAY be a fairly easy decision for you, depending on your particular needs.

The "Reader's Digest" Executive Summary may be of some help -- the View has a larger screen with better (QVGA) resolution, and, IF you buy a third-party 30-pin cable, you can use its video output line.

It also has much better video file format support (not nearly as restrictive as the Fuze's oddball twist on the AVI spec).

The Fuze has a smaller screen, with lower resolution -- however, it's crystal clear, nice and sharp -- plenty of resolution for a screen of that size -- and, has MUCH better firmware (bookmarking for videos, audiobooks, and podcasts, incremental fast-forward (you don't have to spend the rest of the day slewing through a long chapter to get to a certain point mid-way through it), and, with recent firmware versions, halfway decent (audio-only) directory navigation.

However, it does NOT have a video output line, and, its video format requirements border on the sadistic. Thankfully, a third party freeware program (video4fuze) does yeoman duty, making video actually usable on the Fuze.

In addition, there is no Rockbox support for the View, nor is there likely to be any -- and, it seems that Sansa dropped all firmware development effort for that player a LONG time ago. Go read the numerous complaints by owners, extremely frustrated at being stuck with crude, buggy software and no apparent hope of resolution.

There IS Rockbox support for the Fuze V1, and there MAY at some point be support for the Fuze V2. Unfortunately, IF there is ever a V2 version, it's not likely to be for some time (I would be very surprised to see a Fuze V2 port in less than a year or two, and I would NOT be surprised to NOT see a Fuze V2 version of Rockbox, ever.)

There is one other consideration regarding the Fuze. The V1 is very picky about its ability to display video content placed on the MicroSD/SDHC card. By that I mean that in most cases -- in my experience -- it doesn't work. The videos will begin playing, but after a few seconds, the player will lock up requiring a hard reset. From what I've read on the forums I am NOT the only one to experience this behavior.

The Fuze V2 does NOT seem to have this problem. I'm able to play videos placed on the flash card without any problem. It seems clear to me that they fixed something with the V2.

Now, with Rockbox, you can play videos on the Fuze V1 using the flash card without any problems, and, it has a better video player application, AND, it uses a standard (.MPG) video format.

In short, if you do NOT need the larger screen, the wider selection of video formats, OR the external video format, I think you will be MUCH happier with the Fuze. It's a nice little device, very elegant.

That said, I will be surprised if they keep it in production for much longer, due to the fact that it's been out for some time now, and, their recent declaration of their new mission as a "value" vendor.

So, there MAY at some point be a short window of opportunity to buy some Fuzes at clearance prices, IF they decide to put remaining stock on the market at "buyer's market" pricing. Your guess is as good as mine, and my crystal ball is out for firmware update.

Finally, IF you NEED the larger display and/or the video output, and, IF you can live with the obnoxious MANDATORY "walled garden" synch program, you MIGHT want to consider a Zune 80 or 120. The caveats are -- in addition to the obnoxious zune.exe program needed to put content onto the player -- the fact that Microsoft has ceased production of all hard drive based Zunes.

However, the Zunes have EXCELLENT video, a truly beautiful LCD (unlike most, viewable from ANY angle without going dark/light/negative/solarized), and halfway decent video format support (they only accept two formats -- and one -- .WMV -- is very picky about HOW it's encoded, and, different from how the Zune 30 demands its .WMV(0nly), which is why I do NOT recommend the Zune 30).

However, the good news is that the OTHER format it accepts is identical to the format the Ipod uses, which means there are scads of programs that can create video for it. (Please note that I am NOT talking about DRM'd (encrypted) video -- which will NOT play on the Zune IF created for the Ipod.)

I regularly time-shift television shows for my wife's Ipod, and the same files play on my Zune 80 without ANY changes. I use Handbrake, telling it to create an Ipod file, and the Zune 80 is perfectly content with it.

You can get a fairly inexpensive video cable for the Zune (plugs into the earphone jack, and provides composite video and left/right audio channels), or, a dock (which, depending on version, may include an IR remote control for the Zune).

The Zune is MUCH larger than the Fuze (offhand I'd say maybe four times larger, approximately). It's roughly the same size as my wife's Ipod (a Gen 5), BUT, the LCD is probably close to TWICE as large as the Ipod's LCD. Way to go, Apple, scrimping on the display on a VIDEO player!)

If the video is NOT a major issue to you, you really can't beat the Fuze. It has MUCH better audiobook and podcast management than either of the others (the View or the Zune), it can get lost in your shirt pocket, and the sound quality is fantastic.

One final consideration is that the Zune has a nice hard GLASS screen cover, whereas the Fuze has a soft, easy to scratch plastic display window.

I recommend a "skin" (I buy from a company that I think is called something like "best skins forever" -- I forget the exact name, I have no affiliation with them, I just like their prices and products). There are other companies that sell the same material -- it's an ultra rugged clear plastic, designed to protect the leading edge of helicopter rotor blades. It's about impossible to damage this stuff, but if you DO damage it, you're out maybe three or four bucks -- peel it off and buy a new one to apply. If you scratch the actual screen on the player, you're screwed.

BTW, although the glass on the Zune is MUCH more resistant to scratching than the display on the Sansa, it's NOT totally impervious to scratching. The glass on one of mh Zunes DID get a scratch -- no idea how -- it was the ONE time I put it into my shirt pocket WITHOUT first placing it in a cloth pouch. When I took it out of my pocket, it had a nice scratch right there in the glass. All I can figure is that a tiny piece of grit/dust/whatever had lodged in the shirt pocket and it was harder than the glass.

I lucked out, sort of. The WIFI section died, and Microsoft replaced the whole player under warranty. (I was expecting to get the same one back with repaired WIFI and scratched glass -- but pleasantly surprised to receive a NEW unit in exchange for the refurb I sent in. For all my (and others) griping, they DO do SOME things right for their customers.)

So, I now put skins on the displays of ALL my trinkets, and urge others to do likewise if they care about their displays. A scratch IS forever.
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Old 02-21-2010, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by glove4 View Post
Has there been any rumors floating around of new Sansa players in development? Judging by the fact that the sansa fuze and view are both two years old or more, I wonder if its worth waiting for a newer Fuze or View model but I don't see info at all on anything coming out this year other than the clip+ which is great in any event. Or should I just go with the fuze or view regardless based on the if it aint broke don't fix it idea, and not worry about updated models of which there is no word of anyway? Sorry if there is another thread on this, I am on my phone and its a pain doing thread searches.
As far as I can tell, we got pretty much no notice of the Clip+ coming out. I only read ABi, not the Sansa forums, but anything important there is usually echo'd here pretty quickly. That makes me think that we won't get much notice of the next new goodie.

M_K: I just got finished reading your comments accusing somebody else about being snotty, so I'm sure that you'll have something to say about me. But please tell me where in your long diatribe you answered glove4's question. Cause I didn't see it in there.

Steve
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Old 02-21-2010, 12:55 PM
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M_K: I just got finished reading your comments accusing somebody else about being snotty, so I'm sure that you'll have something to say about me. But please tell me where in your long diatribe you answered glove4's question. Cause I didn't see it in there.

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  #5  
Old 02-22-2010, 12:14 PM
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As far as I can tell, we got pretty much no notice of the Clip+ coming out. I only read ABi, not the Sansa forums, but anything important there is usually echo'd here pretty quickly. That makes me think that we won't get much notice of the next new goodie.


Steve
Steve, I would have to respectfully disagree on the Clip+, IIRC no9 did a review within the first week of it hitting the market here and I believe that the marketing departments of these companies tie the Editor’s hands about releasing information too soon even though they know something. Regardless, I know that Enzo will bring us the news as soon as he is allowed to release it, so stay tuned
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Old 02-22-2010, 12:34 PM
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Steve, I would have to respectfully disagree on the Clip+, IIRC no9 did a review within the first week of it hitting the market here and I believe that the marketing departments of these companies tie the Editor’s hands about releasing information too soon even though they know something. Regardless, I know that Enzo will bring us the news as soon as he is allowed to release it, so stay tuned
If I remember correctly, he went out and bought it at a store. I wouldn't consider that as proof of us having notice. And again, if editor's hands are tied, again there would be no notice if it happens as it did with the clip+. People bought the clip+ at a regular store before we were ever told of its existence.

If anything your post agrees with Steve.
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:26 AM
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Steve, I would have to respectfully disagree on the Clip+, IIRC no9 did a review within the first week of it hitting the market here and I believe that the marketing departments of these companies tie the Editor’s hands about releasing information too soon even though they know something. Regardless, I know that Enzo will bring us the news as soon as he is allowed to release it, so stay tuned
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If I remember correctly, he went out and bought it at a store. I wouldn't consider that as proof of us having notice. And again, if editor's hands are tied, again there would be no notice if it happens as it did with the clip+. People bought the clip+ at a regular store before we were ever told of its existence.

If anything your post agrees with Steve.
There was no notice at all of the Clip+ coming. The entire summer before it was released, all there was, in the SanDisk forum in particular, was clamoring for a new firmware update, which was lagging far behind the previous schedule they had been keeping. And pretty much all the things people wanted for their existing Clips, were suddenly available,but in a new player.

And a little while after it was released, they issued their statement which basically said, "we're busy with the new player,so maybe at some point if the engineers have free time they'll do another update for the old Clip"(ok, so that was an extreme paraphrase, but it's true)....which means, it's been relegated to pasture, like the View(which also still is sold in stores, btw).

Don't get me wrong, I really like my Clip+, but the way they handled that situation still irks me a little bit.
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Old 02-23-2010, 08:15 AM
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If I remember correctly, he went out and bought it at a store. ...
You are correct, although if you had been in irc at the time, you may have a different impression. Also I don’t see what irks you and marvin, they released another good player, what would you want them to do, put on a turtle neck sweater and hold a press conference
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Old 02-23-2010, 08:59 AM
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So let me see if I have this right. Some people are irk'd and others are irc'd.

Verrrrrry interesting.

BTW, this kind of thread reminds me of something called vapourware. Announced but never reached market. Personally I would much rather products hit the market quietly and be available, than announced and reaching market 6 months (or whatever) later. Especially since that would cause every other qusetion or comment on the forum to be "where is the new product". It's bad enough that I live in Canada where half (or more) never show up anyway.

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Old 02-23-2010, 10:23 AM
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You are correct, although if you had been in irc at the time, you may have a different impression. Also I don’t see what irks you and marvin, they released another good player, what would you want them to do, put on a turtle neck sweater and hold a press conference
They dropped the clip development for the clip+ (even though an update had been promised AND they still sell the original). I'm not about to retype months of will they, won't they but it was a long drawn out process ending in a very disappointing statement from sandisk, which left a lot of people a cold. Not sure how you missed it and/or forgot it. Changed a lot of opinions.
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Old 02-21-2010, 08:41 PM
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Um... did you guys read first sentence of the diatribe?

Q. Is there something better coming or should I just get the Fuze or View?
A. I wouldn't hold my breath, SanDisk is going after the budget market so even if they do have something new coming it might not be a significant improvement.

What's the problem? I thought that post was well stated and probably helpful to someone trying to choose which Sansa they should get.

-I don't feel strongly on the subject so I neither agree nor disagree with the answer given. If you disagree: fine, but acting like an answer was never written is odd.
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Old 02-21-2010, 09:17 PM
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I appreciate the replies, especially M_K for the very long one. I am using a Fuze now, like it a lot. By the way, I figured no matter what that any new player coming out this year or next would still be a budget player like the Fuze or Clip. I have a soft spot for budget players though. I have tried higher end touchscreen players like the Sony X-series, Creative Zen X-fi2, and as good as they sound, I end up using the cheaper, easier to navigate players far more, like the Clip and now the Fuze. Doesn't sound nearly as sharp as the Cowon I9 that I also have tried, but it sounds good enough to my ears, now I just need to upgrade the headphones as the $80 Klipsch S4 headphones are excellent, but I think more expensive model will make these players sound even better.
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Old 02-22-2010, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by glove4 View Post
I appreciate the replies, especially M_K for the very long one. I am using a Fuze now, like it a lot. By the way, I figured no matter what that any new player coming out this year or next would still be a budget player like the Fuze or Clip. I have a soft spot for budget players though. I have tried higher end touchscreen players like the Sony X-series, Creative Zen X-fi2, and as good as they sound, I end up using the cheaper, easier to navigate players far more, like the Clip and now the Fuze. Doesn't sound nearly as sharp as the Cowon I9 that I also have tried, but it sounds good enough to my ears, now I just need to upgrade the headphones as the $80 Klipsch S4 headphones are excellent, but I think more expensive model will make these players sound even better.
Me too. I have several players, and the expensive ones don't get to go anywhere exciting bless them.
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Old 02-22-2010, 11:47 AM
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Um... did you guys read first sentence of the diatribe?

Q. Is there something better coming or should I just get the Fuze or View?
A. I wouldn't hold my breath, SanDisk is going after the budget market so even if they do have something new coming it might not be a significant improvement.

What's the problem? I thought that post was well stated and probably helpful to someone trying to choose which Sansa they should get.

-I don't feel strongly on the subject so I neither agree nor disagree with the answer given. If you disagree: fine, but acting like an answer was never written is odd.
It didn't actually answer the "are there new models coming?"
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Old 02-23-2010, 08:02 AM
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It irks me too. The whole situation gave me a different perspective of sandisk. I would certainly be a little wary of buying a fuze now.
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Old 02-23-2010, 11:16 AM
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For me the Clip+ was wasted with being unable to integrate the MicroSD properly. (long refreshes, random refreshes)

I wouldn't buy Sansa again.
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Old 02-23-2010, 11:31 AM
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For me the Clip+ was wasted with being unable to integrate the MicroSD properly. (long refreshes, random refreshes)

I wouldn't buy Sansa again.
Good point, they've never been able to fix that, even from the e200 series, guess if and when rockbox gets ported that won't be an issue. Which btw I read they've started on ...
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:05 PM
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For me the Clip+ was wasted with being unable to integrate the MicroSD properly. (long refreshes, random refreshes)

I wouldn't buy Sansa again.
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Originally Posted by WalkGood View Post
Good point, they've never been able to fix that, even from the e200 series, guess if and when rockbox gets ported that won't be an issue. Which btw I read they've started on ...
There's enough people talking about that issue, both in this forum and the Sansa one, that I probably will never get a card for mine. If I really need to carry around more than its 8GB can carry, I'll bring my Sony too.
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:45 PM
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Like I said previously, it would make me think twice before buying a fuze now. And sweetheart, I didn't bring it up.
First off I’m not a “sweetheart” other than to Ms WalkGood, second I could care less if one buys one or not, I don’t have SanDisk stock, heh, and per your other post you did imply it, so I responded. If you mean something else, I’m all ears …

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… I have 6 sansa players and have upgraded every time a new clip model came out, why would you assume I'm unhappy with my devices? I'm unhappy with sandisk's response to certain things, but rather that than be deluded into assuming they're awesome regardless of what they do.
lol, you got me beat, I only have 5 (4 clips & 1 e260), but I certainly didn’t say “awesome” in my reply, they’re good for the price period and if you can run rockbox on them, then I like them better. They are what they are, a good inexpensive player that have a good form factor and that’s it. As far as expecting miracles in firmware from them or other manufactures, personally I wouldn’t hold my breath as they all have faults …
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Old 02-23-2010, 01:23 PM
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Good point, they've never been able to fix that, even from the e200 series, guess if and when rockbox gets ported that won't be an issue. Which btw I read they've started on ...
A single data point (but I think I've read of others noting the same thing) -- they DID seem to fix it in the Fuze V2.

My Fuze V2 is my ONLY non-Rockboxed Sansa that can play videos via the card.

ALL of my other Sansas either don't support video via card, or, "officially" support it -- but, when I try, it plays for a few seconds and then locks up tight as a drum, and stays locked up until I either do a hard reset, or (sometimes), eject the card and force a refresh. If I try again, it's the same thing. I do have one or two cards that will work (in Fuze V1 or e200 V2), but I don't know what make/model they are (if people think the display on a Fuze is small, then I challenge them to read the microscopic FAINT print on a MicroSDHC card!)

Of course I have zero expectation of them implementing firmware fixes for the other players so that they'll be as robust as the Fuze V2 when handling video files.

Thankfully Rockbox is available for the players OTHER than the Fuze V2, and, the Rockbox video player eats the Sansa player's lunch even on a good day. (The stock video player on the Fuze is the first one that's at all usable, period. Earlier models have no bookmarking, pathetic fast-forward, and in some cases, the worthless .MOV format, with a need to break each file into numerous tiny segments of a few minutes each. The Fuze works, and has enough functionality to be usable, even if not as nice as Rockbox.)

BTW, I don't see this mentioned very much (if at all), but the lowly Express handles the whole indexing thing in an ALMOST Rockboxish manner. The Express writes its index to each MicroSD/HC card, rather than forcing so many rebuilds.

When you move cards between and Express and any other model, you end up with "junk files" (not as bad as drives that have been crapped on by a Mac, but still a waste of space) -- and, the Express is the MOST picky model in terms of which cards it will accept. Ironically, it's about their cheapest model (when it was in production), but, with later firmware versions it did accept HC cards -- but, regardless of card capacity, it was always a crapshoot as to whether it would accept a card, and, if it would, what you'd need to do with the card to make it happy.

It's been a while since I put any cards into any of my Expresses, but I can seem to recall the official directions being pointless, with some cards being able to plug and play (as should always be the case), and others needing to be formatted by the player, and yet others needing to be formatted by the computer. If a card was NOT formatted in the way that particular brand and model card "needed" for the Express, it would go wild -- it would act like it was copying files, writing to the card, but, nothing would happen, or, files would be there, but it would't be able to see them. I think I've experienced both failure modes (as I said, it's been a while -- my Expresses are now relegated to use mainly as utility FM radios.)

That's another player that would have been great IF they'd bothered to deliver a solid firmware version for it. Instead, it's cute, but frustrating.

PS: I forgot to mention -- there WAS one guy who DID spill the beans on the Clip+ a few months before it was released. I forget if it was here or on the Sansa forum, but he did a fairly accurate "tell" on it -- and no one believed him. He took a ration of feces over it, was told that he was a dummy who must have seen a Fuze and thought it was the new Clip with card slot (which he'd described).

Eventually (it didn't take long) he basically said screw this and left. But, he did see it coming -- I would guess he had seen one of the pre-release pieces, or maybe the specs at a vendor that was under NDA, or maybe he worked for a PR firm... there are always plenty of potential leak vectors.

Other than that one guy though, in ONE thread, I didn't see anything beyond wild speculation regarding their future products. If I can find that thread I'll post a link to it, but "ol' pops" ain't doing so well in the health department at the moment, so don't hold your breath (unless you're someone who annoys me, in which case feel free to hold your breath until I get back with you. )

Last edited by m_k; 02-23-2010 at 01:29 PM.
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