Sound quality + Drag&Drop + FLAC + Gapless... Does it exist?

[This]

Hey everyone. I decided to post here after spending lots and lots of time reading and researching, but being unable to find what I'm looking for. Also everyone here seems really helpful.

I'm a CD holdout looking to buy my first mp3 player. Right now my portable music player is a Panasonic Shockwave CD player that I've been using for probably 12 years and I still love it. Now that storage capacities have gotten to the point where I could carry around many full albums in full quality in my pocket, I'm looking around to see what player is best for me.

Now I said I'm looking for an mp3 player, but I don't intend to use any format other than FLAC. I'd be open to a different lossless format if necessary, but FLAC seems best to me.

Here are the most important things to me:
1 - Sound quality (I've stuck to CDs this long for a reason)
2 - Drag & drop file management
3 - Gapless playback

Those three items are musts for me. Additional important considerations are obviously storage, battery life, interface, price, etc.

It seems that criteria 1 & 2 are matched by things like Cowon's S9/D2, Samsung's P3, and Sansa Clip/Fuze. But do any of these support Gapless?

I *might* be willing to consider forgoing drag & drop management if I can get a player with top-notch sound quality and gapless playback.

Strangely two of the devices I've been thinking about most are the Sansa Clip and the Archos 5. The Clip because of its price and sound quality and the Archos because of its massive storage and myriad uses. However from what I read, the Archos doesn't have the best sound quality.

Anyway I know this forum is deluged with "which player is best for me" posts so I appreciate your help and advice.

Cheers.

[CrowdAds]

[a_tumiwa]

Cowon S9 FLAC already support loseless, just download the latest firmware

[Scrapz]

Well, I can confirm the Cowon S9 (with the lastest firmware [1.31b/2.31b/3.31b]) does support gapless playback with FLAC's. I'm not completely sure about the rest of those players though.

[Hirudin]

Welcome to the "why is it so hard to find this ONE feature" club! As far as I've read, gapless support is pretty much nonexistant these days.

To me it seems like gapless playback could be implemented with different firmware/software on pretty much any player, but for some inexplicable reason it isn't.

The best bet for all these features is probably a Rockboxed player of some sort, probably the dreaded iPos ( ).

Originally Posted by Scrapz

Well, I can confirm the Cowon S9 (with the lastest firmware [1.31b/2.31b/3.31b]) does support gapless playback with FLAC's. I'm not completely sure about the rest of those players though.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! It's almost... as if... Cowon is listening to the cries of the masses. Next thing you know they'll add song rating support and I'll be a customer.

[This]

Thanks for the info. After doing more digging, I think I've come to the conclusion that I should just wait another year or two. There's still no player that seems to really fit my specific (admittedly somewhat niche) needs.

Sansa is out due to no gapless playback. Archos for the same reason plus reportedly mediocre sound quality. The Cowon S9 seems closest but even there there seem to be sound issues, with not as good sound quality as the Sony X-Series which seems to be best in that area - but no lossless support!

Oh well, CDs and my trusty Panasonic Shockwave have lasted me this long.

[Mogget]

I'm no expert, but from all my research I got the impression that the S9 has completely ridiculous, ludicrously outstanding sound quality. So if it supports gapless as has been mentioned, it sounds like a slam-dunk for you... I almost bought one myself, but dropped back to a Fuze after examining my bank account.

[Blahaha]

Originally Posted by Mogget

I'm no expert, but from all my research I got the impression that the S9 has completely ridiculous, ludicrously outstanding sound quality. So if it supports gapless as has been mentioned, it sounds like a slam-dunk for you... I almost bought one myself, but dropped back to a Fuze after examining my bank account.

Yeah I think you might want to look at some reviews. The Cowon S9 is known for great sound...now that's not to say that the Sony wouldnt be a great fit for you but the S9 has everything you're looking for with amazing sound and a nice EQ to mess with if you like.

[This]

Well, this site's review has this to say:

Cowon has always been know for great sound quality and you will find the same here- it’s very comparable to the D2. Testing it with some lossless FLAC files against a few other players I did find that it started to fall apart at higher volumes. By this I mean the highs start to get a bit fatiguing and the soundstage closes in. Other players like the Sansa Clip, Toshbia T400, and the Cowon X5 play though clear till the volume was near the top. I also found that the low end lack a bit of warmth when compared to the others, but with BBE on all Cowon players, bass is never a problem. BBE will turn even the Shure SE530's into bass cannons. To almost all, the S9 will be more than acceptable; I only nitpick for those toting the ultra expensive phones. Take the preceding as an overly critical look; I still maintain it has great sound quality.

So that worries me a little bit. There's also the big thread in the Cowon S9 forums about the 32gb player bricking itself when transferring files.

[CDMP3PlayerFan]

Originally Posted by This

Thanks for the info. After doing more digging, I think I've come to the conclusion that I should just wait another year or two. There's still no player that seems to really fit my specific (admittedly somewhat niche) needs.

Sansa is out due to no gapless playback. Archos for the same reason plus reportedly mediocre sound quality. The Cowon S9 seems closest but even there there seem to be sound issues, with not as good sound quality as the Sony X-Series which seems to be best in that area - but no lossless support!

Oh well, CDs and my trusty Panasonic Shockwave have lasted me this long.

On the subject of lossless formats for the Sony players, I did a quick internet check and the Sony X-Series does support one lossless format out of the box: WAV. It also provides gapless playback with WAV files.

As a test, I ripped an album as a set of WAV files, loaded them on my player (a Sony A-Series), and played them. They did play back gaplessly.

Just provided for your information.

[h1a8]

Originally Posted by This

Thanks for the info. After doing more digging, I think I've come to the conclusion that I should just wait another year or two. There's still no player that seems to really fit my specific (admittedly somewhat niche) needs.

Sansa is out due to no gapless playback. Archos for the same reason plus reportedly mediocre sound quality. The Cowon S9 seems closest but even there there seem to be sound issues, with not as good sound quality as the Sony X-Series which seems to be best in that area - but no lossless support!

Oh well, CDs and my trusty Panasonic Shockwave have lasted me this long.

Dude, the cowon sounds fantastic (with BBE on). And this is coming from someone who only listen to Sony CD players and Sony cassette walkmans. Also the Sony mp3 walkmans does do lossless with wav and gapless at that. I assure you that either of these players would make you super happy.

What type of headphones do you listen to your CD players with?

[The DarkSide]

Originally Posted by This

Koss R-80 headphones. It's a pretty old model but I've found them to be pretty awesome. The lifetime warrantee doesn't hurt either.

Originally Posted by h1a8

Dude, the cowon sounds fantastic (with BBE on). And this is coming from someone who only listen to Sony CD players and Sony cassette walkmans. Also the Sony mp3 walkmans does do lossless with wav and gapless at that. I assure you that either of these players would make you super happy.

What type of headphones do you listen to your CD players with?

Got ya' buddy!

[Hirudin]

This, what headphones are you using?

People say that the headphones can make a bigger difference than the player, 'specially if you're using crappy (read: cheap) headphones.

[This]

Originally Posted by Hirudin

This, what headphones are you using?

People say that the headphones can make a bigger difference than the player, 'specially if you're using crappy (read: cheap) headphones.

Koss R-80 headphones. It's a pretty old model but I've found them to be pretty awesome. The lifetime warrantee doesn't hurt either.

[Blahaha]

I don't know...I have never noticed that issue but that does not mean it's not there.

[dfkt]

Sound quality + Drag&Drop + FLAC + Gapless... Does it exist?

http://www.rockbox.org/

[Mogget]

Good point...

[This]

The problem with Rockbox for me appears to be that it only works on devices that are 2-3 years old. It's only now that the storage : size : price ratios on DAPs are even beginning to line up with what I want in such a device.

[mysticstylez]

Originally Posted by This

The problem with Rockbox for me appears to be that it only works on devices that are 2-3 years old. It's only now that the storage : size : price ratios on DAPs are even beginning to line up with what I want in such a device.

Sometimes you have to settle for less.

[This]

Originally Posted by mysticstylez

Sometimes you have to settle for less.

I don't have to do anything of the sort. I've used my Shockwave for twelve years, I can use it for another two and see what's on the market then.

[Jack4L]

Originally Posted by This

The problem with Rockbox for me appears to be that it only works on devices that are 2-3 years old. It's only now that the storage : size : price ratios on DAPs are even beginning to line up with what I want in such a device.

Eh? A "slightly larger" HDD player still holds more storage then any flash players atm, I mean flash is up to 32gb, but theres still quite a few 40gb HDD players you can get for a fraction of their price used.

Or then get a player that can be moded to use a compact flash card and rockbox. It may be old tech, but atleast theres a whole lot of info on them, very few if any suprises, spare parts for repairs etc.

A player that can do that will only run you about 50-100$ if you shop smart, a good compact flash card will set you back about 160$. A slightly slower one (Same storage), only about 70$.

Ofcourse somehow I get the feeling that after years and years of using an old CD player that you reeally want to get into the whole gadget scene with something really totally awesome and sleek like the x1000 or S9, but you still just want to have your core features I'm much the same way, dont really care for flashy videos and features, just want my damn music playing options!