Creatives' response...

[eddie74]

Well, everyone,

I have been in contact with a gentleman from creative and I recently recieved the straight goods about MTP protocol from hime. Here is a quote from the last recent email...

"...MTP documentation -- Here's the short, brutal version of the story, from my perspective: Various parties (Microsoft at the lead, and certainly Creative as well...) came up with MTP. Microsoft did a crappy job documenting it, but people started doing devices anyways. Once devices were out, nobody did any more public documentation. In the meantime, Microsoft decided they didn't want to manage MTP, so proposed that it become an international standard. Unfortunately, while that standard is being proposed and adopted (which allegedly will be done soon), all the new documentation they've created remains under wraps with the negotiating parties and the standards body. So, people like us don't get to see it until the process is done.

This is why I was (eventually) asked to produce some documentation to help clarify the existing public documentation. A few months ago, I started painfully experimenting, pulling, and prodding, and..."

So as you can see the MTP protocol (and associated devices?) may be not so standard as we once thought....YET! What does this mean to us???? Maby different features, easier, faster connectrion? who knows, but at least we are making some head way with our app. Not only that, but maby now we are getting around in the industry, we will be more apt to recieve more detailed, useful information in general as releaters to MTP and the Creative Zen Vision:M and other devices that use MTP. We will continue to devfelope, and change code as necessary. Just thought you technical types might find this interesting. It also explains whey the licensing rights are wishy-washy from microsoft and why I have been hitting brick walls everty where I turn[/COLOR]

[dfkt]

Very interesting...

[DaveMac-MS]

Hi all:

I've been commenting in the iriver forums for a while - let me chime in here as the Microsoft representative to the USB-IF standardizing MTP.

Originally Posted by eddie74

In the meantime, Microsoft decided they didn't want to manage MTP, so proposed that it become an international standard.

Not at all - MTP has become enormously successful - so much so that the industry really isn't best served by it being a Microsoft protocol any longer. By standardizing it in the USB-IF it will become a fully fledged USB device class - putting it on a technological par with mass storage class.

Originally Posted by eddie74

allegedly will be done soon), all the new documentation they've created remains under wraps with the negotiating parties and the standards body. So, people like us don't get to see it until the process is done.

Well, anyone can become a member of the USB-IF and join the process if they wish - hundreds of companies are members, and tens are contributing to the specification. However, I find this comment very curious coming from Creative since they are actually members of the USB-IF, and a representative of their company has attended at least one previous MTP standardization meeting. Eddie, if your contact would like more details - contact me offline (davemac@microsoft.com) and I'll connect the dots for them.

However, if anyone would like the current publicly available MTP porting kit, you can download it directly from here:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/windowsmed...s/default.aspx

Originally Posted by eddie74

It also explains whey the licensing rights are wishy-washy from microsoft and why I have been hitting brick walls everty where I turn

Actually, all the licensing details are on microsoft.com - see here:

http://wmlicense.smdisp.net/licenserequest/

I'll be happy to clarify if anyone has any further questions.

Cheers, Dave.

[eddie74]

Welcome to the forums, it is nice to see a microsoft rep here Actually, we are not knocking microsoft at all. That was excerpt from a gentleman at creative. Basically, if you can tell me how to license the MTPLib.dll included in the Microsoft Media Transport Kit I would love to be able to license it

[DaveMac-MS]

Hey Eddie:

Thanks for the welcome - good to be here. I've been over in the iriver and Zune forums for a while - good to get involved here!

So the difference in licensing is that rather than licensing the protocol, you want to actually license a DLL that ships in the porting kit. Let's take this offline (ie: use regular email) - email me at davemac@microsoft.com.

Cheers, Dave.

[DropBear42]

The MTPLib.dll that ships in the publicy available MTP porting kit is available for use and distribution under the terms of the MTP porting kit EULA. If you want access to the source of the library it is available by executing a sign and return license (contact me offline if you want details on getting the license).

This may be obvious, but the library is for 3rd party apps to talk to MTP devices on PCs that don't have WMP10 or WMP11 installed. It is not required on machines that have WMP10 or later installed because we ship an MTP class driver in those products.

Cheers

P.S. No need to contact Dave now

[eddie74]

Ok...........
So what your telling me is that we have to switch to using the MSWMDM api's instead of accessing the low level MTP with the dll? So if I use api's from the MSWMDM, since it is part of media player, then I don't need to register it? And if so, are the api's compatible from the wmp 10 version to the wmp11 version? ****By the way when I said the licensing agreement was "wishy-washy" I mean that even our lawyer could'nt really explain to us what we needed to do. I contacted MicrosoftCanada for more information and was sent back to the same licensing agreement I was trying to ask them to clarify for me, so I called a second time and guess what? They sent me back to same license again without answering any of the clarifying questions I had asked them....Now that you and Dave are responding on the forums, it is more information than I recieved in an entire month. It can be frustating sometimes, whenever you try to implement an emerging technology I think. I am so happy now though. It is aqlso nice to saee that so many sdevoted forum users (not just on this forum, but others as well) are embracing the changes put forth by the many people involved in the MTP protocol. I think it will change the way all computer users (not just windows users) will inteface media devices. It is also amazing to see so many manufacturers readily embracing the tecnology as well. I think MTP will do for media transfer what xml did for the web.

[ZenChick]

Oooh, this place is crawling with Microsoft reps... Creepy!

Just kidding... Welcome to the ZVM forums, guys!

[cdvma]

You need to link against advapi32.lib. In the project options you specify it on the same line as the kernel32.lib user32.lib ect ect. If it can't find it you need to put the path in the library path but it should be in windows/system32 so no problem with the path.

[thesupreme1]

(Jaw Drops)

Wow, never thought I'd see someone from microsoft (or another big company) actually post in a forum I visit. This made my day =p. Props to him and eddie and daryl. My god this is as close to famous people as I will get =p. BTW you guys are hella smart too.

P.S. sorry for going off topic...=\