DVR To Zen Solution?

[Digital Assassin]

OK, long story short, lots of shows I'm watching this fall and a good portion of them (75%) my wife doesn't watch.

So, what I've been doing is downloading the episodes a few days later, converting them, and tossing them on my Zen.

What I've been tossing around is whether it would be worth it to grab a TV tuner card and record those shows directly to my PC since I'm watching them on my Zen anyway. I'm looking for something cheap, knowing at minimum I'll need to buy a tuner device.

Anyone else done anything like this? BeyondTV looks a bit pricey for the simplicity of what I'm wanting to do. Is there anything out there that I could configure to encode the shows automically so I just have to transfer them to my Zen? We just have one PC so I'm not necessarily looking to do MythTV.

[CrowdAds]

[no9]

I'm running Window Media Center with a TV card. It wasn't that expensive to do. I don't know if I can specify output file types though.

[BobbyRS]

Originally Posted by no9

I'm running Window Media Center with a TV card.

This seems to be the most popular way that I have seen.

[kevo777]

Just yesterday Nero and TiVo announced LiquidTV. It's gonna be launching in just a few weeks. The TiVo PC software that will be included in the kit will feature MP4 transcoding for iPod, PSP, or other compatible portable devices, but I guess that doesn't included Zen (darn you Creative for not allowing the MP4 format). Still, this kit will put the TiVo interface and experience on every Windows PC in the world. Good stuff.

[BobbyRS]

Still, it may provide an easier way to get a convertible file to put on the Zen.

[Digital Assassin]

I may actually go the Mythbuntu route. Talked to a friend who uses it a lot and he said you can specify that a show be transcoded automatically after being recorded and that you can specify a resolution, etc. That route would be cheaper as all it would require is buying a simple TV tuner that works with Mythbuntu.

[kevo777]

Digital Assassin,
I have seriously considered setting up a Mythbuntu box. The feature set and capabilities do seem endless considering it's a completely open platform. My one hesitation is setup. I've read many nightmare posts in many forums (Google Alert: mythbuntu) of configuration woes and headaches. Often with Linux, hardware drivers can be a real issue. If you get one setup and configured to automatically transcode content for the Zen I would very much like to hear of your experiences.

[BobbyRS]

Originally Posted by Digital Assassin

I may actually go the Mythbuntu route. Talked to a friend who uses it a lot and he said you can specify that a show be transcoded automatically after being recorded and that you can specify a resolution, etc. That route would be cheaper as all it would require is buying a simple TV tuner that works with Mythbuntu.

Oh, ok. I've seen it a couple of times. It looks interesting although I've never messed around with it. I too have heard some horror stories, but if you get it up and running please feel free to share the experience by updating us here. Thanks!

[Digital Assassin]

I'll keep you updated. A co-worker has gotten me interested in Mythbuntu because he had the horror stores you speak of, but then just recently installed the latest Mythbuntu and said it just worked. None of the configuration issues he encountered initially.

He's also letting me borrow one of his 5 tuner cards, a Hauppauge PVR-150. If it truly just works I'll let you know and then focus on figuring out whether you can transcode directly to a resolution, etc. so it can just be copied to the Zen. I may need some of your guys expertise in that area, but maybe together when can get it figured out.

The ultimate solution is to have it record, then automatically transcode overnight so I can turn around and copy a show that played the previous night to my Zen the next morning and be ready to go.

[kevo777]

Originally Posted by Digital Assassin

...a Hauppauge PVR-150.

That is the exact capture card that I have. It's installed on my box, but I've been bored with the software available for it so I stopped using it. It should get along nicely with Mythbuntu [fingers crossed for ya].

[Digital Assassin]

Originally Posted by kevo777

That is the exact capture card that I have. It's installed on my box, but I've been bored with the software available for it so I stopped using it. It should get along nicely with Mythbuntu [fingers crossed for ya].

You got that right. I had already installed Ubuntu and then added Mythbuntu before getting the card. Got the card yesterday and slapped it in and 5 minutes later I was watching live TV through it and another 5 minutes later I was scheduling recordings via the web interface.

So, it works pretty much out off the box. I need to get familar with stuff but it looks like it should just be a matter of installing that MythExport thing and creating some profile that will work for the Zen. I'm sure it's not quite that simple but getting it to the point I did yesterday was a piece of cake.

[Digital Assassin]

OK, so I found this...

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MythExport

Here's what caught my interest...

john@ultramagnus:~$ mythexport

How to use mythexport:

chanid = Channel ID associated with the recording to export.
starttime = Recording start time in either 'yyyy-mm-dd hh:mm:ss' or 'yyyymmddhhmmss' format.
exportdir = Directory to export completed MP4 files to (note the user the script runs as must have write permission on that directory).
size = Frame size of output file. 320x240 is the default value.
aspect = Aspect ratio of output file. Valid values are 4:3 (default) and 16:9.
audio_bitrate = Audio bitrate in output file in kbps. Default value is 96kb.
video_bitrate = Video bitrate in output file in kbps. Default value is 300kb.
export_codec = Acceptable export codecs: mpeg4, xvid, h264, mp3, none.
export_device = Acceptable export devices: ipod, psp, zune, archos, none.
delete_period = How long (in days) to keep the exported files before removing them. Default value is 30 days.
podcast_name = Used to group recordings into different podcasts. Default value is null.


debug = Enable debugging information - outputs which commands would be run.

Example: mythexport exportdir=/mythtv/ipod starttime=20060803205900 chanid=1006 size=320x240 aspect=4:3 audio_bitrate=192kb video_bitrate=300kb export_device=ipod export_codec=mpeg4 debug

Looks like 320X240 is default resolution and that you can specify bitrates and codes. The options available should work for Zen shouldn't they?

[BobbyRS]

Looks like it. I would stick with XVID for video (not sure which export device that is.... maybe PSP) and MP3 for audio and maybe up the video bitrate some. Either way, it looks like you should be able to mess around with it to get what you want. Can this be done automatically?

[Digital Assassin]

From my quick searching today, yes, it looks like you can set it to automatically transcode a program after it is recorded. The thing I haven't read for sure is whether you have to flag it to do that each show, or if it's something you can set on the 'series' level so Heroes for instance would automatically record and then transcode each Monday. If it can do that, it's almost the perfect solution for what I'm (and I'm guessing you guys too) wanting to do.

[BobbyRS]

Sounds great. Like I said, please keep us updated. Thanks!

[Digital Assassin]

A quick update. MythTV is up and running fine but I got curious this morning and decided to see if there was anything remotely like it for Windows. I skipped BeyondTV and Sage as I know they are both pay.

GB-PVR may be the solution... (http://www.gbpvr.com)

It's not quite as polished as MythTV but it DOES offer most of the same functionality, including a web interface.

It also quite plainly offers auto-transcoding after recording into several formats, including XviD and DivX. Apparently those options basically call scripts for FFmepg with different parameters.

You can edit the parameters by editing the appropriate secton of a config.xml file. That section is...

<CustomFFmpegConversions>
<Conversion name="XviD" cmd="-y -i {SOURCE_FILE} -f avi -ab 224 -ac 2 -acodec mp3 -deinterlace -vcodec xvid -qscale 5 -vtag XVID {DEST_FILE}" targetExtension=".avi" />
<Conversion name="DivX" cmd="-y -i {SOURCE_FILE} -f avi -ab 224 -ac 2 -acodec mp3 -vcodec mpeg4 -b 1000k -vtag DIVX {DEST_FILE}" targetExtension=".avi" />
<Conversion name="Video Ipod" cmd="-y -i {SOURCE_FILE} -title {TITLE_SUBTITLE} -f mp4 -vcodec mpeg4 -s 320x240 -r 15 {DEST_FILE}" targetExtension=".mp4" />
<Conversion name="Sony PSP" cmd="-y -i {SOURCE_FILE} -title {TITLE_SUBTITLE} -f psp -r 29.97 -s 368x208 -b 768k -ar 24000 -ab 32 {DEST_FILE}" targetExtension=".mp4" />
<Conversion name="Mobile .3GP" cmd="-y -i {SOURCE_FILE} -acodec aac -vcodec mpeg4 -s qcif -aspect 4:3 {DEST_FILE}" targetExtension=".3gp" />
<Conversion name="WMV-1200kb/s" cmd="-y -i {SOURCE_FILE} -vcodec wmv2 -b 1200k {DEST_FILE}" targetExtension=".wmv" />
<Conversion name="WMV-700kb/s" cmd="-y -i {SOURCE_FILE} -vcodec wmv2 -b 700k {DEST_FILE}" targetExtension=".wmv" />
<Conversion name="FixAudio" exe="mencoder.exe" cmd="{SOURCE_FILE} -ovc copy -oac pcm -fourcc H264 -forceidx -aspect 16:9 -o {DEST_FILE}" targetExtension=".avi" />
</CustomFFmpegConversions>

The thread I found that says you can edit it is http://forums.gbpvr.com/showthread.p...hlight=320X240

So, you video/FFmpeg experts, what parameters would I specify for the Zen? I tested the general functionality of GB-PVR and recorded a 30 minute show to it's standard MPEG-2 format. That file was ~970MB. I then ran that file through the Creative Video Converter (which took ~90 minutes) and the resulting file was ~200MB. It played perfectly fine on my Zen and was very clear and seekable.

So, although I could record shows and then run them through the Creative Video Converter overnight and that would accomplish what I set out to do, it would be great if I could record the shows and have GB-PVR automatically convert them (which I bet would take less time then the Creative Video Converter) so that all I have to do is copy them to my Zen.

Any ideas?

[Digital Assassin]

I've found it!!!

Waded through a bunch of Google results and finally found information on what FFmpeg settings to use for the Zen specifically. In fact, the place I found the information listed parameters for both 4:3 and 16:9.

So, I edited the config.xml and added Zen 4:3 and Zen 16:9 options. I did quick conversions on both and they seemed to process fine. The 4:3 looks good and the 16:9 was fine other then sometimes there was a small white line at the top of the picture but video and audio seemed in synch, etc.

So, I'm in the middle of my final test. I flagged Knight Rider to record tonight and selected to have it auto-convert it right after the recording finished. It just finished recording and the converting did indeed start automatically. I'll post again later with some exact numbers, but the test 1 hour show I did earlier (Numb3rs from last night) converted in just over 45 minutes and looked fine.

Assuming my full cycle test converts just as quickly, this is the EXACT solution I was looking for. Auto records my shows and immediately converts them so all I have to do is copy them to my Zen the next morning.

GB-PVR isn't quite as polished as MythTV but it runs in Windows (and all of the recording and converting is via the service so it runs fine sitting at a log-on screen) and offers all of the same basic functionally (web interface, channel listings via Schedules Direct or other sources, etc.) and configuring the auto-conversion once I had the parameters took 5 minutes.

Oh, once I confirm this last test was good I'll also post the exact lines I added to the config.xml for future reference.

[Digital Assassin]

Final post for today. GB-PVR definitely allows for an automatic conversion. I did notice some slight video/audio synch issues but hopefully you video gurus can help with any tweaks to the parameters that might help. Here are the custom Zen settings I added to the .xml:

<Conversion name="Zen 4:3" cmd="-y -i {SOURCE_FILE} -r 29.97 -vcodec xvid -vtag XVID -s 320x240 -aspect 4:3 -maxrate 1800k -b 1500k -qmin 3 -qmax 5 -bufsize 4096 -mbd 2 -bf 2 -flags +4mv+trell -aic 2 -cmp 2 -subcmp 2 -g 300 -acodec mp3 -ar 48000 -ab 128k -ac 2 {DEST_FILE}" targetExtension=".avi" />
<Conversion name="Zen 16:9" cmd="-y -i {SOURCE_FILE} -r 29.97 -vcodec xvid -vtag XVID -s 320x180 -aspect 4:3 -maxrate 1800k -b 1500k -qmin 3 -qmax 5 -bufsize 4096 -mbd 2 -bf 2 -flags +4mv+trell -aic 2 -cmp 2 -subcmp 2 -g 300 -acodec mp3 -ar 48000 -ab 128k -ac 2 {DEST_FILE}" targetExtension=".avi" />

Here's a link to the FFmpeg syntax page showing what each of the parameters does:

http://ffmpeg.mplayerhq.hu/ffmpeg-doc.html

Keep in mind I have it set to Medium as far as recording quality. The 60 minute Knight Rider episode was ~1.67GB after recording initially. The conversion process resulted in a 320X240 file that was ~310MB and seekable on my Zen with no problems at all. The video was definitely easy on the eyes at Medium, I'll have to try High at some point.

The best part? The conversion process done by GB-PVR automatically after recording took ~50 minutes for a 60 minute show. So, the episode started @ 8PM and by 9:50 there was a file I could copy directly to my Zen with no further encoding/conversion.

I noticed you can tell it to wait to convert and give it a time range during which it can convert new recordings. I guess it's possible the synch issues I was seeing are a result of my machine being used for other things during the time the conversion was taking place.

The first "real" show I'm recording is The Unit tomorrow so I think I'll set it to do the actual conversion overnight sometime when the machine is sitting idle and see if that makes a difference.

This solution is 90% there, if I can just get some feedback on the FFmpeg settings it might be perfect soon.

[kevo777]

Originally Posted by Digital Assassin

<Conversion name="Zen 4:3" cmd="-y -i {SOURCE_FILE} -r 29.97 -vcodec xvid -vtag XVID -s 320x240 -aspect 4:3 -maxrate 1800k -b 1500k
<Conversion name="Zen 16:9" cmd="-y -i {SOURCE_FILE} -r 29.97 -vcodec xvid -vtag XVID -s 320x180 -aspect 4:3 -maxrate 1800k -b 1500k

I find it interesting that the official video encoding guideline from Creative states that maximum video bitrate for MPEG-4 should remain at or under 1.0 Mbps. Your ffmpeg parameters are clearly exceeding that and you're experiencing no problems. Is Creative not telling us something?

I would suggest using a lower constant bitrate for the video stream and see if that doesn't fix the sync issue. Dropped frames due to excess video bitrate may be the cause.

Confession: When I bought my Hauppauge PVR-150 three years ago I did stumble across a very young GB-PVR. It wasn't even v1.0 back then but it was very stable and light years ahead of what Hauppauge offered OTTB. Clearly, it's matured a great deal. I hadn't kept up with it all this time.

[Digital Assassin]

OK, so the -b paramater? I dropped it from 1500k to 900k. We'll see what difference that makes.