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-   -   Crossfeed (http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53637)

microUgly 03-21-2010 10:48 PM

Crossfeed
 
What's the crossfeed setting on the S9?

I know it has this feature and I know it's not called "crossfeed". With so many options, it's difficult to identify it through trial and error.

ultrauber 03-22-2010 07:09 PM

Settings-system-audio l/r
It's a very odd name, and I know, they should have put it under music, but it seems as though they wanted to have the same amount of settings on each page.

WalkGood 03-22-2010 08:41 PM

Cowon players do not have crossfeed, audio L/R is to adjust the audio balance from left to right, on the older cowon models it was called pan.

Crossfeed is a feature that blends the left and right stereo channels slightly, reducing the extreme channel separation which is characteristic in headphone listening. It is also supposed to improve soundstage, like listening to a pair of speakers.

ultrauber 03-22-2010 09:29 PM

Ah, I've been wondering if there was a difference between the two. Thanks for clearing that up.

WalkGood 03-22-2010 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultrauber (Post 454171)
Ah, I've been wondering if there was a difference between the two. Thanks for clearing that up.

No problem, come to think of it, I'll add it to the glossary link in sig.

Edit: BTW microUgly I've corrected the thread title

microUgly 03-22-2010 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WalkGood (Post 454174)
Edit: BTW microUgly I've corrected the thread title

I really was looking for "crossfeed", not "balance". I'll have to check where I got the impression it was capable of this.

WalkGood 03-23-2010 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by microUgly (Post 454201)
I really was looking for "crossfeed", not "balance". I'll have to check where I got the impression it was capable of this.

I hear you and I have no problem changing it back, in fact you have that ability as well. But again unless Iím crazy the s9 does not have it. You need an amp that has the crossfeed feature like the Meier-Audio Corda 3Move or the Headphonia Headstage Arrow. AFAIK the only firmware for mp3 players that does offer it is rockbox.

EddieE 03-23-2010 08:16 AM

I just got a Corda Cantate (arrived yesterday) and find the cross feed pretty pleasant. It's not an obvious change at all, very subtle, but does make tracks with extreme stereo mixes (like many older recordings from the early days of stereo) a lot more listenable with headphones.

You notice it more when you turn it off than when you turn it on I've noticed. Not sure why that is...

WalkGood 03-23-2010 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EddieE (Post 454275)
I just got a Corda Cantate (arrived yesterday) and find the cross feed pretty pleasant. It's not an obvious change at all, very subtle, but does make tracks with extreme stereo mixes (like many older recordings from the early days of stereo) a lot more listenable with headphones.

You notice it more when you turn it off than when you turn it on I've noticed. Not sure why that is...

Congrats, very nice amp with crossfeed and I really like the Meier-Audio products, although the Cantate.2 is really a desktop headphone amp for in home use VS a portable for on the go as the OP suggests.

microUgly 03-23-2010 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WalkGood (Post 454253)
AFAIK the only firmware for mp3 players that does offer it is rockbox.

Prior to the S9 I had been using the Rockbox on my 4th gen iPod.

I can't see exactly where I got the idea the S9 supported Crossfeed. I think it must have been a poor assumption on my part as I read some of the fancy titles for it's sound settings.

I like cross feed because a handful of modern tracks still like to throw sounds into just the left or right channel and it bugs me where I hear that so clearly with headphones on, knowing it would sound different with open speakers.

I tend to think that all modern players should be able to simulate normal listening conditions when wearing headphones. I know I'm not mistaken that Creatives "X-Fi" technology is designed to do this.

TackyTiger 03-23-2010 11:54 PM

If you can live with some equalisation, RMAA tests done by dfkt indicate there's a fair amount of crossfeed in the BBE VIVA effect;

http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum...1&postcount=37

TackyTiger 03-24-2010 03:12 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I became curious and did some tests, it seems crossfeed is in JetEffect settings under "Stereo Enhance" (though Stereo Collapse might be a better name).

I've attached the results of the crosstalk test, this was achieved by going into Settings->JetEffect 3.0, click on the "cog" besides User 1, Make the EQ->All to zero, BBE+->everything off, STE->Stereo Enhance=5,Reverb=Off.

The full results can be found here.

I ran out of time before testing values lower than 5, maybe I'll do some more later.

TackyTiger 03-24-2010 10:44 AM

OK, I got around to testing the various levels of "Stereo Enhance".

It seems there's very little difference between levels 1-5. As I was limited to 4 slots in RightMark, I've just shown the upper & lower values.

http://peskett.co.uk/RMAA_crossfeed/Comparison/ct.png

WalkGood 03-24-2010 11:08 AM

TackyTiger, I donít deny that crossfeed is going on, which it is, but it would be hard to find the best settings for headphone equalization and crossfeed adapted to your own ears without the feature like presented on rockbox or an amp that has crossfeed.

TackyTiger 03-24-2010 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WalkGood (Post 454711)
TackyTiger, I don’t deny that crossfeed is going on, which it is, but it would be hard to find the best settings for headphone equalization and crossfeed adapted to your own ears without the feature like presented on rockbox or an amp that has crossfeed.

It seems to me it's marginally more flexible (albeit badly named) in the Cowon firmware. On most amps (and in Rockbox) it is either on or off, at least you have the option to increase the effect from -28.5 to -21.8db in 5 steps using "Stereo Enhance". What you do with equalization etc from there would be up to you with the custom settings...

Edit: Oops, I missed a whole raft of options in Rockbox. I stand corrected, as usual it's peerless in its flexibility.

WalkGood 03-24-2010 11:39 AM

Well you have a point but you don't have the level of controll like crossfeed in rockbox has the following settings that you can adjust: direct gain (dB), cross gain (dB), high-frequency attenuation (dB) and high-frequency cutoff by (Hz), look here. Edit: although to actually see and hear the level of controll, you would have to look and test in rockbox.

microUgly 03-24-2010 06:47 PM

So does Stereo Enhance conform to the general idea of crossfeed where where delays are used such that sound in the left channel is mixed into the right channel with a slight delay to maintain a true stereo effect, or is it simply mixing the two channels without a delay?

WalkGood 03-24-2010 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by microUgly (Post 454871)
So does Stereo Enhance conform to the general idea of crossfeed where where delays are used such that sound in the left channel is mixed into the right channel with a slight delay to maintain a true stereo effect, or is it simply mixing the two channels without a delay?

Don't know about any delay, but AFAIK it is supposed to increase the stereo width wider and sounds much more open and expansive

Typhoon859 01-30-2013 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by microUgly (Post 454871)
So does Stereo Enhance conform to the general idea of crossfeed where where delays are used such that sound in the left channel is mixed into the right channel with a slight delay to maintain a true stereo effect, or is it simply mixing the two channels without a delay?

I know it's an old thread but why start a new one? The question is, well, what's quoted... Does it simply mimic the effects of CROSSTALK, essentially, and possibly add some kind of other effects, or is it in practice true to what would be a proper crossfeed function?

skip252 01-30-2013 07:03 AM

Crosstalk and crossfeed are only remotely related. A crossfeed DSP effect is intentionally added. Crosstalk isn't

Crosstalk
Quote:

In electronics, crosstalk (XT) is any phenomenon by which a signal transmitted on one circuit or channel of a transmission system creates an undesired effect in another circuit or channel. Crosstalk is usually caused by undesired capacitive, inductive, or conductive coupling from one circuit, part of a circuit, or channel, to another.
Crossfeed= An effect you prefer add. Crosstalk= something that needs to be accounted for or fixed.


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