codec support is one area i can see MS never improving upon... given how long they worked on VC-1

Personally I find WMP11 better than something like iTunes. It's very light on system resources in comparison, including loading times, though I do find scrolling through even a 'small' library stutters.

What _do_ people use in Windows to just play music? Back in the day I remember using winamp1 and 2, but from what I remember those started to get bloated in later versions. I've been out of touch because I got hooked on linux... but that does not mean I don't occasionally use windows. I tried WMP about 6 months ago and found it trying to be more than a simple player and could not get it to behave like one no matter what I did. I tried VLC, but it would crash randomly. What else is there that I can trust not to do more than just play music for the little time I spend in Windows?

This article is so confused its making me reconsider my regular readership of this entire site.

For starters, WMP already has mainstream adoption in the same way IE already has mainstream adoption, by being part of the most successful operating system in the world on which the vast majority of users use whatever comes out of the box. And even if its not the most used music player now on account of iTunes, that's only because of the iPod (same out of the box reason) and has absolutley nothing to do w/ anything discussed here.

Secondly, the Zune software is obviously just a rebranded version of WMP with very few changes--its essentially the same codebase--so ditching WMP for Zune's codebase makes absolutely no sense. How you can not know this boggles the mind.

have always used winamp for my music..

Foobar is a nice alternative if you don't like winamp..

for video VLC is the only way :D

sadly more and more are using iTunes because of their iPod purchase... i'm sick of it..

I agree with David. I also fail to see why you founded a site against a mediocre mainstream(~70%) product yet give attention to a far worse mainstream application.

Personally, I wouldn't EVER want a Microsoft product to be adopted mainstream, Windows is immensely more than enough monopoly for Microsoft.

I have some news for you..... WMP is already mainstream.

I used to love WMP, until it failed to add my new AAC songs to the library.

I'm using Media Monkey now. It does a great job. It does everything the WMP can do concerning music, and it fixes the three aforementioned issues.

what I love about wmp is the playback speed settings. I listen to recorded Stern shows and set it to x1.6 playback speed and it saves me a lot of time.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Apple has a lock on iPod technology so one can only sync the iPod with iTunes. Yes, third-party software exists to read from the iPod, but they're unsupported and could potentially fail any time the iPod's firmware is upgraded.

I also agree with others above that WMP is mainstream (in the same sense that IE is mainstream)... perhaps the point of the article is more about WMP's failures and how to measure success.

"Zune software is obviously just a rebranded version of WMP with very few changes--its essentially the same codebase--so ditching WMP for Zune's codebase makes absolutely no sense."

The Zune code is written from the ground up. There is no WMP code in the new Zune software. V1 was WMP, but the second version is brand new code.

"How you can not know this boggles the mind."

I do know this as fact since i have spoken with the Zune team on several ocassions.

Ok, ill admit, it was a poor choice of a title. =) "Maybe 3 Ways to Improve WMP" would have been a better choice?

The only reason that I use WMP is the fact that it has a concise 'get album info' service and aggressivley manages my library. It is slow and clunky and I would happily use something else that could manage my library like WMP does. Does Media Monkey do the same thing?

Thanks for the article EnzoTen, while everyone may not agree with the contents of the article it boggles my mind how ungrateful some blog readers can be. Thanks for the interesting posts and insightful reviews you provide, I'm sure that I echo the sentiments of the majority of your readers.

The Creative Zen Vision:M works well with Windows Media Player.

It's not Microsoft's fault that the iPod doesn't work with Windows Media Player. The iPod isn't an MTP player and doesn't support WMA, WMV or WAV formats, thus it won't work with Windows Media Player.

It sure would be nice if Windows Media Player support podcasting.

Completely agree with this article, I have started to use MediaMonkey recently and I was amazing on how quick it is in general. Its also very low on system resources and plays everything I throw at it

One thing you have to admit about WMP11 is that some of the features are great. Creating playlists and finding songs are really simple to do with WMP. You can skin it, have custom colors and the toolbar player is very useful.

All this aside, I still prefer using MediaMonkey to play music...

I have to disagree. WMP does not support many codecs because it relies on the direct show subsystem instead of packaging its own built in codecs. You might argue that Windows itself should be bundled with codecs but this again doesn't see the fact that Windows has a very big market and any pre-bundling of codecs would raise hell the competing media companies. Also people don't understand that the codec area is very disorganized. I agree that something probably could be done in this area but looking at WMP is not the right place.

As for other aspects of WMP I think it performs quite well and its functionality is robust too. However I do think they could add more to it and make it better, but it isn't as bad as you make it seem.

I guess my computer must just be weird. My home computer blazes through WMP; I've never really had a problem with lag, and I've got a 60-70GB music library. iTunes, however, is a very different story. It takes forever to boot up, and it runs REALLY slowly afterwards.
Musicmonkey might be a better choice, but I love the WMP 11 cover art viewing system. Just right click, press play. Hate to be "that guy", but I really like WMP11.

dramamoose
it isn't just your computer when it comes to itunes.

I don't know why itunes runs so slow for some of you but it is really fast on my iMac.

I also use MediaMonkey for managing my music. Getting album info, including album art, is much better than in the way it is handled in WMP.

I use WMP, after ditching iTunes, and though it isn't perfect it is at least 4 times faster than iTunes.
For codec support, I'm pretty good with computers so I don't need it to be transparent. I don't care what my parents would need to cope with it, the point is I can get mysterious file types working so I'm happy.
And as far as device support goes, it does everything for my Sansa View that iTunes did for my iPod, and a little more too. Plus, it converted some movies for it.

I don't see what the problem is; people who dislike iTunes can switch, I did it. And I knew about Media Monkey too, I decided against it.

Yeah WMP totally sucks, I use MediaMonkey; It’s fast and easy to tag songs/ get album info and such. Not to mention the ways you can organize your music is great. Plus, it’s got the coolest visualizations I’ve ever seen “Milk Drop” I only use WMP for ripping/ burning CDs. And of coarse it’s needed to play some things on the web. But I use MediaMonkey to listen to music and put songs on my ZVM; it organizes songs into proper files unlike itunes that seems to want to encrypt your songs.

As for performance... I guess you mean scrolling and navigation? WMP11 performs decently if you use the "Details" view mode, rather than the "Icon" or "Expanded Tile" modes. Still, it could definitely perform better in the other modes.

I still use WMP 10, as I found out that WMP 11 causes this horrible "PING" sound when I exit the program. I don't have huge issues with my library mangagement, but I wouldn't mind something a bit easier. I really wish that there was podcasting support, though. I hate some of the free ones out there. Sounds like media monkey is the way to go?

Everything written about codecs is in fact absolutely wrong. These are the main points:

You don't need codecs to play a file in WMP. Codecs are only good for video editors such as SONY Vegas or VirtualDub. To play a certain file in WMP you need DirectShow filters, concretely a source filter, splitter, video decoder and audio decoder.

Also a plyaer can't support codec. Codec is a piece os SW (like DivX, XviD, CCE, libavcodec etc.) A codec codes video or audio to a certain format. A player has to support the format. Why are you talking about DivX and XviD support? It can't exist, because there are no DivX or XviD formats, both codecs code to MPEG-4 ASP. Compare it to MP3. Do you talk about supporting lame, Blade, Xing, FhG, Helix? No, you just say support for MP3. Why are you not doing the same for MPEG-4 ASP? Think about the difference between codec and a format.

WMP absolutely relies on DirectShow system and won't play anything wtihout these filters. Windows come with AVI, ASF (WMV, WMA) adn MPEG PS (MPG, VOB) splitters. There are also DV, MJPEG, MPEG-1, WMV1, WMV2, WMV3 and MSPEG4 video decoders. Windows also come with MP2, MP3, WMA1, WMA2, WMA3, WMAPro and WMA Lossless decoders. Microsoft includes only support for thier own formats and a few of the absolute basic ones. They would be absolutely silly so support other (and much better) formats then their own ASF/WMV/WMA family. If WMP would support other formats, do you think anyone would use these MS formats? MS isn that stupid.

Also if they would like to include support for MPEG-4 ASP, MPEG-4 AVC (AKA H.264) or MPEG-4 AAC, they would have to pya to the patent holders like they are doing it with MP3.

@JeCh

OK fine, direct show filters, not codecs. How its done is not the point. You are arguing semantics.

"They would be absolutely silly so support other (and much better) formats then their own ASF/WMV/WMA family."

MS is a software company to provide users with the best experience possible. "silly" or actually shooting themselves in the face would be to not support what people use.

MS is not trying to provide best experience. They're trying to make as much money as possible. They need to make people use their formats (and they for their support in portable players). Nobody would use WMV or WMA if it wouldn't be the only format supported by WMP out of the box. MS formats are inferior in all ways compared with their alternatives.

Saying this, WMP 11 is quite a good audio player. But it is almost unusable as a video player. It lacks basic features like text subtitles support, changing AR, adjusting audio/subtitles delay, changing renderer etc.

I meant to write "and pay for their support in portable players".

Foobar is an amazing piece of software and I can't imagine using anything else with my music, but it's greatest strength (insane customisability) also makes it way too complex for the casual user.

I use foobar for my music listening,excellent quality and speed and Helium Music manager to manage my 4 TB music collection.

Lot of interesting things being said here. I have about 9000 songs (192kbs WMA for the most part) so it's a large library (takes up about 54 Gig) I really haven't noticed a problem with speed of WMP 11 it loads quickly and works well. My biggest problem with it is that it's not very intuitive even when compared to WMP 10. But I've figured out how it works and I like it. Now having said that. I do not like the way it supports my Zen Vision W, it does support it and once it's configured the way I want it it's fine, but I just don't like the way WMP "takes over" and tries to do things I haven't asked it to do, very annoying. and WMP can "forget" the sync relationship which forces me to completely re-sync the player even if I just want to add one or two songs or albums. I've started using Creative media source 5 instead. it's easier to configure to the way I want to use my device. Codec's can be a problem in WMP but i installed creatives explorer extension so anything the Zen can play WMP seems to know about. The Idea of WMP handling firm-ware upgrades is interesting but also frightening! It is likely that WMP doesn't support the iPod because Apple doesn't want it too. much like WMP (and realplayer for that matter) don't support .MOV files unless you have quicktime installed on your PC.

I use JRivers Media Center.
People use it with libraries in excess of 100,000 files really easily.

It plays every format under the sun, and works with IPods.

http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=intentionju1.png

The items described would be good additions to WMP. However, for me the best change would be to stop the overwriting of current album art content. I know this low on the list for some. Personally, I make sure I have the correct album art for every song. That is, the original album on which the song appeared. If I can't scan it myself, I find it on the web in 600x600 or 700x700 (my preference) format.

The problem is that if you put a JPG in a folder and call it "folder.jpg" and launch an MP3 file from that folder, WMP will resize "folder.jpg" to 200x200 and create an "albumartsmall.jpg" that's even smaller! Why can't Microsoft just check the current folder and if it finds a "folder.jpg" file, LEAVE IT ALONE AND USE IT?!

I have turn off all web activity in WMP just to keep my album art intact. I've tried to make a concerted effort to use some other media player. I've even given iTunes more than a fair chance. I use iTunes mostly to embed the album art JPG into the MP3 file. It works better than WMP for that. Unfortunately, there is no media player good at everything. This isn't a pipe dream; I mean really, how hard can it be to code a good media player?

I use wmp 11 on my Vista based laptop only because I do not use it for heavy duty media work. I have an XP based desktop for that. On that machine, I use winamp 5.52. It can be skinned a lot better and easier, especially at full screen size. Also has the ability to add codecs as needed. The only downside is that the inferface can be a bit "busy-looking".

Still better than either wmp 11, 10 or 9.

I have no speed problems with Windows Media Player 11 with over 50K tracks on an "ancient" 3Ghz P4 box. Use the text search box to filter, as designed! Scroll speed? Who scrolls their whole library in one shot? It's obvious they didn't want to load everything in one shot, so it could scale.

The rest of the article is marginal, too. Oh, well.

1) I don't like ipod technology period. basic users like it and buy it but even then they really have alot of problems saving and restoring their music when they need to format & reinstall the OS.

2) WMP is only widely used because its embeded in the OS, some users are clueless as to what else is out there, and settle for as is.

With that said, the WMP11 sucks. with the main reasons already discussed my main complaints are

1) CAN NOT PLAY MORE THAN ONE MOVIE AT ONCE? WTF

2) POOR SUPPORT FOR VERY POPULAR CODECS, DIVX, XVID, MKV, OOG, AAC (MOV/RM is understandable)

3) Bogging down because of a long list, is quite retarded period for a playlist. Its just a list.

With that said, I manly use Windows Media Player Classic (open source development) & winamp. But the complaint still stands as a built in media player that is supposed to handle most of our media needs, I expect it to work much more decently. I can care alot less about the way the interface looks, fix the damn functionality.

What do I use for playing music in windows?

MusikCube! It's the best by far for simply playing music.

I use songbird, they've gotten better. When it hits 1.0 it'll probably be the standard for standards. Right now with songbird at 0.6.1 it's kind of rough around the edges but with inputs from users and contributors.

What WMP needs is to support the Zune, work with their device partners to get rid of their software and external firmware updates/podcast software and integrate into the jukebox, add Zune support, not try to sync every last removable stroge device in the frakin world, if your device mounts as jump drive ask you once and then say Sandisk cruiser added to the do not sync list, work with the online stores to be in the online store tab and only need their downloaders for iTunes, embed album art, to bring us down to only two jukeboxes iTunes or WMP work with the other ppl just to provide online stores, if they do the previous make it skinnable to look like those players and have them make pluggings to do certain things those players did, not trans code everything into WMA if it mounts as a removable storage device convert it to MP3 because that's how my phone mounts ant it is frustrating, get rid of the online media guide, im just saying if you can get us down to one player that interrogates into the OS you might just get more user and ell more Zunes, along with a few zens

WMP also needs some visual help. For the most part it looks pretty cool, but it needs a new icon. That blue square with the orange circle and the white trangle is the most uncoolest looking thing.

Also, it needs a "now playing" mode that shows the album cover in full screen.