Steve Jobs is after Hollywoods money.

Finally, the truth comes out. He doesnt care about pioneering a great product, or a product with great potential. The ipods limiting features on the unit itself make it a miserable experience. But with the additional bullshit people have to put up with in itunes purchased music, is completely unacceptable, especially when apple (steve jobs) overcharges you.

Make note, that his greed goes beyond the ipod.

When he released the MacBooks with intel processors, he claimed them to be "the perfect form factor." A complete lie because there are windows based laptops that perform much faster than any macbook released, and when comparing the macbook to a toshiba laptop with the exact same configuration, it came out to 400 dollars LESS. What is also funny, is that the toshiba even included a dual layer DVD burner, the macbook DID NOT. And no, eventhough OSX is superior to windows, it is not the reason for its high price, as OS X sells for $129 dollars on its own.

Steve Jobs *IS* greedy.

I just absolutely hate being forced into using a particular software package (especially when that package involves a store) in order to use my hardware.

I'm actually in the market for an MP3 player that just lets me drag and drop music files onto it and then play. Does anybody have any suggestions for a 2-4 gig player with this mass storage compatibility? I'm looking for something with a color screen. Basically something like the ipod Nano, except not evil.

I so agree with you. I also did not buy an iPod for exactly the same reasons.

Hey Dave - you can get Rockbox to run on the Nano now. You can make it Not!Evil!
Three cheers for the Rockbox folks.
I've been looking for a flash player for ages that
- played ogg files (I've got an iRiver H140 and lots of stuff in ogg)
aaaaand....
- had a big ol' pause button on the front
(because for some reason, people love to start conversations with someone going for a run/cycle/workout with headphones in. Dunno why, but they do).
I don't like the idea of being forced to put some software on my PC just to make a DAP work - ya know, it's one thing to offer it, another thing to force it on folks. It just seems kinda wrong.
On the upside (another upside beside Rockbox for iPods) there seem to be more and more music stores offering un-DRM'd music. Playlouder.com has some big names, for one.

Actually, on Microsoft's website where they show off several PMC devices (including the Gigabeat S) they show one that runs PMC AND supports DivX. DivX support is possible via a ROM Flash upgrade.

It says that it will support DivX, but it does not support it natively, yet, if ever. It says that it will be automaticaly transcoded with Windows Media Player.

This isn't very accurate. PlaysForSure is purely a logo that can be applied to a device of any brand, with any operation system, supporting any number of additional formats, and PlaysForSure devices can even support mass storage drag-and-drop...just most companies don't seem to go with it (some do, like the Dell Ditty).

PMC is just a device OS that some companies choose to use, that Microsoft creates. Many PlaysForSure devices support formats beyond the minimum (DivX, ogg, mpeg4, flac, ape, etc are just a handful that some PlaysForSure devices support).

Finally, MTP is a published spec. There is software for both Linux and Mac that work with MTP, although they dont' support DRM yet (which is probably fine for 90% of most users).

I am a little confused. Isn't DRM a separate issue from what type of player that you have? Be it IPOD or Creative, IRIVER etc, don't all the "legal" forms of music download involve some form of DRM? For all intents and purposes, if you RIP your own music from your CD's you can do what you want with it with an IPOD or any other player. Is there a legal service that does not have any DRM attached to it at this point? I think not buying an IPOD becuase you have the Itunes DRM is a little short sighted. The DRM does not stop you from using your IPOD with your music that you have ripped or downloaded. In fact, if you buy music from the itunes store and then burn it and re import (I know, not the most ideal situation)you no longer have DRM! So what is the big deal now?

What are you all smoking? Sure, buying DRM-protected music is dumb, but how else is a company like Apple going to make money selling music? Te record labels won't go for non-DRM digital music sales. In fact, even with the current model, they're whining that they want more control and higher pricing.

Since when are you limited to DRM music on the iPod???

iTunes lets you easily rip songs, without DRM, from any music CD or import existing MP3 files into our iPod, again without DRM.

I am a huge Apple and iPod fan and I have yet to purchase a single song from iTunes.

CDs are great. They were out before most of the posters on this site were born. Yet they are better than anything out now that people are paying gold prices for.

Lossy, DRM'd content in 2006. How sad.
Instead of going forwards, we're going backwards. And people are buying it.

Doesn't this guy know you can rip an audio CD of your purchased iTunes music and then just re-rip it into iTunes on a second computer (or different user account) as an MP3. No restrictions there....

Sure you can but itunes music to a CD and then rip them again. But one: it is a pain in the ass to rename and retag them all. TWO: it is a copy of a copy... with even worse sound quality...

"CDs are great. They were out before most of the posters on this site were born. Yet they are better than anything out now that people are paying gold prices for.

Lossy, DRM'd content in 2006. How sad.
Instead of going forwards, we're going backwards. And people are buying it."

Amen to that! Why would you pay for something that's lesser quality than what's been available since, what, 1984? (CD) Not only that, you don't get cover art or nothing.

Downloading music is just so..."impersonal". There's no great feeling of at having a product that YOU own. That's why you'd have to be insane to pay for compressed audio. That, and the whole sound quality issue (I use Hi-MD, despite the crappy software and discs only having 1Gb. Sound quality kicks ass and I don't have to use a computer anyway. Aah, optical in, how I love thee :)

Why is this guy so disgusted? Yes DRM is bad, your not getting what you pay for since the AAC or WMA is of lesser quality than that of an CD. But people want this, they want to sit in their chair and buy songs instead of going to the store and buy a CD.

If you dont want to play the DRM game just buy a DAP without any of this Playforshure Nonsence. Any Korean DAP will do the job. You dont want DRM music just buy a Single or an Album from the CD store. That is your only choice because Non DRM music will never happen. The artists and the Record companies will never allow that. So instead of blaming Microsoft and Apple, blame your money grubbin artist cuz they are holding the strings.

"Is there a legal service that does not have any DRM attached to it at this point?"

Emusic.com provides straight mp3 files with no DRM. $10/month gets you 40 downloads (you can buy more if you want). It features "independent" labels: i.e., no RIAA labels. It has a LOT of stuff on the site. Unless your stuck on top 40, there should be quite a bit of stuff you like there. (The splash screen makes it look like you have to sign up for their trial before seeing their catalog, but you don't. Scroll down to the bottom; click on the "about emusic" link. That takes you to a page from which you can start browsing.

There's also a Russian site, allofmp3.com, which sells mp3's of the standard RIAA stuff very cheap. They claim it's legal in Russia, which may well be true. Whether it's legal to download from there to the US is anybody's guess.

cds are good. until they are scratched. so you would say, well you can rip it. which i this is just like downloading from illegal sources. also i don't think carrying 100s of cds is as 'portable'.

I have to agree with Roger767 and FreeDiverX.

Given the choice I'd much rather buy a CD than downloading from a D/L serivce. Yet I've given iTunes about $60 of my money. Do I care? No not really. It was easier and more convienient than going to the store and in many cases a lot easier to find as well.

Plus hymn-project.org takes care of the DRM.

f*** you all!... ipod is the best! you all just jealuos because ipod is better... just look at the market.. 70% americans use an ipod... you all sucks!

What a mature post that contributes so much to the discussion. Try learning how to spell (including your own name) and how to form a coherent, grammatically correct sentence and then maybe somebody will take you seriously.

I bet your stupid enough to jump off a bridge just because seven out of ten of your friends (if you have any) did it. You'd really be doing us all a favor.

Ok just something to think about......

DRM or not to DRM.... hummmmm..
Well the song writers and musicians deserve the royalties form thier music... it's not our music..... they sell it to us to listen to..... I am sure that if any of those who whine about digital rights management owned a grocerie store and was always getting ripped off by 1/4 of those who came in the door they would set up some security.... why do we suppose we should get it free????? what gives us the right to say what the artisi'e deserve to get paid???? All I know as a musician is if I did not like what a band chrged nfor thier music I would not buy it... and if they ticked me off that much I would not want to klisten to thier stuff.... the only thing worth stealing is worth buying... what if someone goes to your home and steals your DMP??......

Awesome post mac, ipod fanboy. Despite America's deficiets, lowest world science degrees, i bet the ipod is a great thing isnt it?

Aside from the immaturity, the article is talking about DRM songs and downloads, not itunes itself (diver). It is a very blurred line, because everyone wants a stake but nobody can have one without another person complaining. While re-encoding is an option, its a hassle that most people take, because they're idiots. We shouldnt have to sit and download music and then be force-fed proprietary bullshit (Sony, but theyll die out soon:).

I dont know about you, but if you are sane, when you saw Sony's music format ATRAC, i hope you went: WTF???

Im not going to wait 30 min to encode a movie into
[insert random codec an employee pulled out of a place where the sun dont shine here]. I still have my loyal samsung flash palyer with optional PLaysforSure. How about punishing piracy, then removing DRM. Can you mentally picture the loop? Everyone wins (xcept the pirates :p)
The biggest relief to society is UMS support. On the go, nobody wants to wait!!!

UMS, and 80% of the problem is gone.

I don't get the problem, I'm running a 60 gig ipod video, and Anapod. No drms, no restrictions and no Itunes. NO apple software.

I can put the music in and take it out to my hearts desire.

I'm perfectly happy with it and I"m not locked into anything.

Ipod is fine, its ITUNES you need to be scared of. They start f'ing up the formware I'll run Rockbox.

This only effects people who go online music stores. If people are stupid enough to pay a buck a crack to download badly ripped low bitrate junk rather than rip their own cds, then perhaps they are the sheep. The hardware only controls your choice if you don't learn how it works.

I can't vouch for anyone else, but my Ipod is MY bitch, not the other way around.

So you plebs would rather have ms running the show ? At least Apple show originality and taste.

Grow the fuck up.

Apple are a business. Do any of you retards know what that is ?

This site is utterly pathetic.

Get over to a REAL SITE.

www.macdailynews.com

As a Mac user, I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with recommending MDN to *anyone*...it is an unbalanced "MacPravda" site in a very real sense, full of distortion.

It is an embarrasment to well-adjusted, sane Mac Users everywhere.

And another thing to all the people shifting the DRM blame to the RIAA: Don't believe it. Apple is *quite pleased* with Fairplay because of its collateral lock-in effect and would be hard pressed to get rid of it if it were an option.

Personally, I rather like the iPod. No other DAP makes playing my music as simple and intutive (sorry...I've gone thru *many* of the things..not happening)...and I'm not impressed by "featuritis"; More != Better. More = More and Better = Better.

As someone else stated, the problem isn't the player, its the infernal iTMS

People keep saying that the DRM is needed on these digital files. Now if the only to get digital music files was to download them, then I would understand. The companie wouldn't want folks to share them.

BUT, BUT....all anyone has to do is buy a CD, rip the song and then share it. So I don't really see the point of adding DRM to the iTunes stores wares...except to keep folks using the iPod and no other DAP.

For all of you out there looking for the drag and drop mp3 player with the color screen and multiple file format support. Look for a PDA and a very large storage card I've seen CF cards as large as 8 gig(quite expensive though).
Most Players have a media player on them or you can put one on them.
The file transfer is faster if you use a card reader with your computer and just drop the music directly on it, then just pop it in your PDA and you're set. I haven't noticed a sound quality difference between my PDA and an ipod. my particular does clip off the end of the songs but it's not that big a deal.

WTF's with all the fud? All DRM is crap. Apple is no different than Microsoft or anybody else that going to do a download service.

But damn some of you people need to get a grip. I have over 6,000 MP3's. They all play perfectly on my iPod. Sure I have to use iTunes to transfer them. It's as close to drag and drop as anything. Crap even easier than just dragging and dropping. I can edit the tags and manage my MP3's much better through iTunes, then looking at a bunch of files nested in folders.

I don't buy a damn thing from iTunes. But it works perfectly for what I do, and is extremely easy to use.

I have 4 kids, we've tried a bunch of different MP3 players. The latest non-Apple was the Sansa e250. My daughter begged me, literally, to take it back to BestBuy and get the Nano.

You can bitch, moan, pull your hair out and spit in Steve's face - but it doesn't change the fact that the iPods are damn nice!

Damn some of the moronic bullshit some of you are spewing is absolutely amazing.

Another late reply from someone who just discovered this site. As many of you have stated it is entirely possible to rip music from your own store bought CDs and put it onto your own choice of mp3 player.

However this is supposedly illegal, in the UK at least. The European version of the RIAA (whose name escapes me now) have openly stated this but have gone on to say that they will not prosecute anyone that does it for their own personal use. Sharing is a totally different matter and will bring the full wrath of the courts crushing down on your head.

So although you can get away with putting music from your very own legally bought CDs onto your own mp3 player, the law is not on your side. It's the result of blissful ignorance on the part of consumers. Most of us (myself included) don't realise what rights we do and don't have and therefore never contest them. Naturally the companies take advantage of this.

I should also point out that DRM has in no way hindered music piracy. It simply hits law abiding consumers. Anyone who wants to steal their music still can, and it will most likely be far better quality and without any restrictions.

I say that this shouldn't be an argument about Janus vs Fairplay, but about the rights of consumers vs an industry that only cares about our money.

This is on digg

http://digg.com/music/iPod_Disgusts_Jason_Calacanis_Steve_Jobs_is_a_Sellout

DRM is DRM. it doesn't matter what flavor you have, it's going to taste like crap to the average consumer. And I agree, DRM does nothing to stop the pirates. Case in point: It isn't hard to take all your iTunes-purchased music, burn them to CDDA, then re-rip them to a non-DRM'd format -- and if you're lucky enough to get your iTunes in AAC-lossless format, then you're not going to lose anything noticeable going to 320kbps MP3.

I don't like iPods. As a general rule, I don't like any product where there are no alternatives. If you want to use iTunes, you have to use an iPod - unless you don't mind the M4P-to-CDDA-to-MP3 workaround. If you have an iPod and want to buy your music online, you have to use iTunes. I don't like having my choices taken away from me like that. From a technical standpoint, iPods are decent-enough players (though I can't stand the clickwheel). From a consumer-choice standpoint, iPod is evil. Even Microsoft hasn't had the cajones to market a DAP and force its users to use MSN-music.

I have a Creative Zen Vision:M, and I love it. It's not the blind love that 90% of iPod owners have for their iPods - but is an educated, informed love. Though I've never owned an iPod, I've used enough of them often enough to know how they work. I also have iTunes, so I know how IT works -- and I know how, a couple of months into my deployment out at sea with no internet access, my iTunes refused to play my iTunes music anymore. I also know that there is nothing I can do on an iPod that I can't do on my ZV:M (except listen to iTunes music natively). So, rather than be an ignorant lemming, I educated myself on all the DMP's out there, and bought my ZV:M. And I am free to use any subscription or pay-per-song service I want. I even have the freedom to choose which software I want to use to manage my ZV:M. On the official front, I can use Creative's MediaSource, or Creative's Media Explorer, or I can use WMP. On the unofficial front, there's a number of MediaSource-substitutes out there; and if MTP becomes fully implemented in Windows Vista, I could probably skip the software entirely.

For me, my dislike for iPods isn't because of iPod's technical characteristics - which, truth be told, are rather good. It's because of the lack of choice and freedom. It's also because - quite frankly, I'm a very individualistic girl, and I don't want to look like a lemming!

I've owned an Ipod nano and I wasn't very impressed. People nowadays like to have choices and choices is one of the things that the ipod doesn't excel at. At first I thought that the iTMS was a good deal, given that I get to keep the music I download. However the fact that I would have to pay again for a song that I already downloaded if I lost it somehow just turned me off. I'm sure Apple could easy have some list of music that you purchased server side or something.

Truth be told, DRMs worry about one thing..protecting the music industry, not the customer. An average CD costs about 15 dollars. If I buy a cd in a store, I don't want to be told what I can or cannot do with it

Everything seems somewhat fine as it is. You have Apple over in it's secluded corner with ipod and the itms. With other players you have a choice of services such as Yahoo and Rhapsody. Plus you can rip CDs to whatever device you want. I see no reason to make this even more restrictive.

This is the exact reason i bought my iRiver clix. it does everything an ipod does, except run on iTunes and be gay. I can run songs from any program such as Rhasphody or Napster, or eveen a song ripped from a CD.

I would have to agree that Apple is just money hungry.
I don't beleive that their products are what they are hyped up to be.

And by the way, all of you that think iPod is the greatest, check out the iRiver clix for yourself. Then you can cry 'cuz you wasted your money on an iPod.

The previous comments here are missing the most important part of this article - Microsoft is bullying it's way onto MP3 players, and setting it's own rules to remove features, lock out reasonable use and maintain it's operating system monopoly. Microsoft is promising media player manufacturers roses and giving them shit. It is not the DRM downloaded music that is the issue, it is the control and restrictions they demand of the manufacturers of MP3 players that then infect consumers:

1. Mandated 'Media Transfer Protocol' on MP3 players. The device can only be used in Windows XP. This means you are locked into Microsoft products in the future and can't access the device in other operating systems like Linux, Mac, or even older operating systems like Windows 2000. This is to maintain their operating system monopoly.

2. You cannot access the music area on the MP3 player like a drive. You must use Windows Media Player to upload music, and are forced to 'sync' your music and create playlists instead of simply using the MP3 player like a removable hard drive, uploading folders and playing by folder. Newer MP3 players like the Clix force you to upgrade to Windows Media Player 11 to even use the device. This is a demonstration of Microsoft's power to:
a. Force software you don't want onto your computer (which then takes over playback of your other media file extensions also),
b. Remove functionality you want in your MP3 player,
c. Force online advertising into the media player window everytime you use their player to upload music,
d. Direct you to their online music store tie-in associates,
e. Track not just your downloads, but all usage, and report this information back to Microsoft to turn this information about you into marketable information to re-sell. This is done through 'audio fingerprinting' of your music for supposed 'features' like automatically downloading album art.
(see http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,125693,00.asp )

This feature soon to come for your videos and pictures also...

3. Maintain the ability to remove features through forced upgrades to it's media player. The End-User-Licence-Argreement for Windows Media Player includes you authorizing Microsoft to forcibly update the software at any time without any notice (this has been the case since 2002; see: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/06/30/ms_security_patch_eula_gives/ )
What if Microsoft wants to remove the ability for you to upload ANY mp3s you already have and force you to only play WMV music you bought with DRM? It can be done in a heartbeat. Your music player is now PWNED by Microsoft.

-- Look for the 'Plays For Sure' logo on MP3 players. This is a Microsoft marketing LIE which really means 'fucked for sure'.

iPod is not much better and not a viable alternative either. In Windows you are still forced to use the clunky iTunes + Quicktime software to upload music, which still wants to take over all media file extensions to make itself the default player, and force advertisements on you. Linux is unsupported with some projects only partially reverse-engineering the iPod.

The only way to combat this is:
1. Not buying MP3 players with the Microsoft infection,
2. Telling manufacturer corporate offices why you are not buying their players through postal letters directly to company directors (phone calls to outsourced call centers and emails to generic inboxes are quickly discarded)
3. Demand manufacturers create alternate firmwares for MP3 players which remove the Microsoft crippling and restore features like UMS, so the MP3 player can be accessed in any operating system as a USB storage device (like iRiver has done for *some* MP3 players here: http://www.iriveramerica.com/support/ums.aspx )
4. Make sure magazine and online product reviews clearly inform the reader of the level of Microsoft crippling on these devices and steer consumers away. Let the manufacturer know that their product might have been recommended if it didn't come pre-crippled.
5. Support non-MPAA (remember, the guys that sue their customers) online music stores like emusic.com that give you uncrippled MP3 files. Make it profitable for music artists to say no to the evil four record conglomerates, who lobby Microsoft and Apple to limit our choice.
6. Communicate with mass-retailers that you want MP3 player brands that don't lock down their players. Blanket the retail stores with flyers on their MP3 player displays informing customers which models are locked to iTunes & Media Player, and which ones are Free. Educate their salespeople and managers. Maybe corporate buyers will get the idea when they consider which MP3 players to carry.

Please share my opinions above on your blog, review site, etc. with no credit needed. I release the above into the public domain.

I think players should be developed that will work with all video and audio formats. My problem with the Ipod is that it does not support WMA. WMA allows for better sounding music a t lower bitrates. 20 gig holds 10,000 wma's but only 5,000 mp3's. Also the IPOD 5G only supports mpeg4 no divx, mpeg 1/2, or xvid. I don't like to be controlled and control is exactly what apple wants.

Folks:

Just saw this - although I've been posting on this site for some I missed this front page post. I've been posting as a member of Microsoft's Digital Media team in the forums, and frankly - this article by Enzoten is full of holes. He and I have swapped a bunch of mail previously, but we need to get this corrected.

For those looking for the real story - see my posts on PlaysForSure, DRM, MTP and MSC (not UMS - no such "official" thing) in the forums. Lots of good debate, plenty of opinions, and minimal snarky comments - just interesting discussion and swapping of the facts.

Cheers, Dave.

I have used an old 20 gig iRiver H120 for years now and have been extremely happy with it's performance. It allows the drag and drop capabilities (not sure about the new iRiver models), but basically i could copy-paste music from my computer. I recently purchased a 60 Gig Ipod simply for greater space, and found itunes to be a perfect program...if we lived in a perfect world. Itunes allowed me to rip all my music, copy downloaded music and all that. Only promlem was the stupid library sync thing. As soon as I copied all my music from my old mp3 player (which i did not have on my computer) I was finished with itunes. Say I went out and bought a new cd, ripped it to my itunes library, as soon as i synced my ipod all my old music would be gone. So i searched the web for a solution, preferably something that would simply allow you to add files to your ipod without fucking around with what was already on it. I came across a great little program called "VPod". Now all i do is make sure all my mp3 tags are correct just by editing them in their properties windows in windowsXP, and you simply add the files to you library (the library consists of music on your ipod as well as whatever you are adding from the computer you are using, sorted using the same artist-album-song system that you see on your ipod). The next step is to simply place a checkmark next to whatever music you want on your ipod, or to uncheck stuff that you want taken off your ipod. Hit the sync button and you are done. This allows me to take all the music off my computer and put it on my ipod, and then go to a buddy's house and take all his music off his computer, and in the end i get the music from both computers. Like i said, in a perfect world, itunes would work. I eventually plan on purchasing a new macbook, as well as an external hard drive, and i plan to keep all of my music on my computer, therefore whenever i get new music i just add it to my library and sync up. But we can't all afford to be keeping copies of our 60 gig worth of music on our computers as well as our ipods. So this "VPod" program is a simple solution (just search for vPod on google, it is a free program). I have yet to find a program that allows you to copy music off of my ipod and onto my computer...

Simple solution for a simple problem for all the agressive people out there posting on here. If you don't like this site, like a lot of people don't like certain tv show, go to a different site/change the station! That easy. For the people that like this article, this site, and all it has to offer, read on, purchase accordingly, and enjoy whatever it is you have. There's really no need to do this whole "you're stupid because you don't like IPODS", or "You're a sellout becuase you have an IPOD". I'm a Creative fan myself, and I purchased the e270 the day it came out, but I'm not crying about "I hate people that have ipods". No, instead, I'll inform them on my decision on why I purchased the unit I did and how it's worked for me, the pros AND cons of the unit, so on and so forth, and how I think it measures up to an IPOD. Simple, no arguements needed.

I can honestly say I find this site very insightful and up to date on new and exciting items to be released and for that, I visit it regularly. AND, ONE MORE TIME, if you don't like this site, that's ok, but don't come here.

Just to clarify, I noticied I forgot to mention (for those of you who don't know), the e270 is the sandisk sansa media player, NOT a creative player, which I originally had and which I bought for my fiance. Thank you!

Just a note for everyone out there saying it is illegal to copy cd's.

It is NOT illegal to copy cd's as long as you are the only one who will own both copies. It is legal so that you can create a backup of the cd's that you paid good money for.

Thank you,
LD

I'm a bit late to this long and interesting conversation so if anyone is still lurking this thread, maybe you can pipe in.

Maybe I'm daft, but I just don't get what is being discussed here - especially from the "evil iPod" and "evil ITMS" crowd. I've owned iPods since they came out. I've used Macs for years. I put all my CD's into my computer. I put them into my iPod. I started buying songs at ITMS when it came online. I take music in my car, to the beach, and play it throughout my house, streamed to my stereo. I love music and all this freedom to have my music whenever and wherever I go is amazing.

Am I missing something here? Where am I getting ripped off? Really now, because if Apple have tricked me somehow, I really want to know but honestly, I'm just not seeing it.

Anyone?

"I'm actually in the market for an MP3 player that just lets me drag and drop music files onto it and then play. Does anybody have any suggestions for a 2-4 gig player with this mass storage compatibility? I'm looking for something with a color screen. Basically something like the ipod Nano, except not evil."

its called meizu miniplayer

Wozzy and Jobs were sellouts long, long before the Ipod.

Two reasons why ipods suck:
1. the proprietary software is horrid (itunes). Personally, I don't like the idea of proprietary software altogether and think players should just appear as an external drive with optional transfer software.
2. Even if you don't have itunes as a minus, ipods in general are CRIPPLEWARE, especially the shuffle which doesn't even have a screen.

i have read and agree and disagree with a lot of what's being said here...as far as the universal drag and drop, that should just be intuitive, just the way things work. i'm learning as i read about all the restrictions and and assumptions about music players that i had that were wrong that it's a dirty world, this dap world. i had no idea until my girlfriend got an ipod that it was a "use and transfer only as we would like for you to" device...yeah you should be able to just plug it in, take off of it what you'd like, put on what you'd like, as many times as you like, without Steve Jobs waking up in the middle of the night wondering how many people use the product the way they want to and not the (very very very) controlled way that he would have you use it. one comment somone made about the labels and the industry in general (might include the riaa but you'd never hear about it publicly) lobbying MS and apple just makes way too much sense to even be debated. it's just sick..the whole drm thing is just against everything that people who love music are for. sadness and despair all around.

So does "sell out" here equal someone who's successful as opposed to a loser/failure who "keeps it real"?

Just curious.

iPods and iPod owners alike are quite "Dumb" as in stubborn, or lazy. If I had the choice of a really nice BMW with all the latest features and a strong build (Zen Vision M), Or an average Hyundai with the standards (iPod) [While both been the same price] I say I would have to go with the Zen Vision M, I mean BMW,, The PROPPRIETARY Hyundai fuel (iTunes) doesn't tickel my fancy either!

So screw Apple, they'll get whats comin' and it aint money..
Remember all those iPods that broke down in 2004-2005? hmmm.

Also, I don't get why so many god damn people buy thousands of accesories for the iPod only MADE FOR IPOD, what happens when their player goes wrong and they want to by something different, what should that do with the iPod HiFi, iTrip, iDock 2000, iMate 422 etc? My friends Nano broke down recently (it was his second unit) and he got a Creative Zen V, his iTrip and iPod Hifi dock are sitting there wasting space.

I got a Nano-pod as a gift a year ago. I loaded iTunes and it made such a mess out of my computer (background services, quicktime, hijacking default player settings, what a memory hog...). I had to reformat just to get rid of it all. I tried using Winamp to load up the iPod, but mp3's suck hard and transcoding from FLAC took about twenty minutes per album. What a waste of time. I didn't touch it again for 11 months.

This week I installed the Rockbox.org firmware, and I have been using the iPod for hours, every day. It is such an improvement. FLAC sounds great. I can load it from any computer on my network without any special software. And the stupid volume control is actually usable instead of the original ultra-sensitive click wheel's response. Tons of other cool features as well...

Anyone who has an iPod and wants to get the most out of it needs to try Rockbox. This will surely hold me over until the 8-16 gig Cowon D2's show up. The D2 is the coolest portable audio device since the Discman came out. So much freedom!

iPod's are nice but not amazing
iTunes is good for browsing music and previewing
DRM is rubbish regardless of which company uses it

..there

I Use bittorrent To download MP3 For Free.......:)Than i use iTunes To organize My MP3 Files,Than I use WMP To Sync My File To My Zen Touch...Too Simple....No DRM dilemma For Me

DRM is there to protect people trying to make a living out of making music, I agree that the laws are a pain but it seems to me that since the advent of the internet people have managed to detach themselves from the fact that downloading music is stealing, it's not "sharing", it's not lending a CD, it is one person taking something which they have not paid for. The crime is not committed directly to the person whose song it is but to the people who write, record, make, advertise and earn a living off their skill...singing or playing an instrument. Copy write theft is an issue, it does need laws to make copying music harder and it is made easier by people sitting in a chair clicking the download button. Seeing a digital data is a series of 1's and 0's stored in a place on a computer it will never be possible to stop people copying and distributing content. Anyone whose know abit about computer hardware and software interfacing can work out how to get round anything that companies put in place. People who own websites and write their own original content should realise that if their content was copied and reproduced somewhere else without their hard work being credited they would be very very annoyed. I'm a mac owner and by default I choose to use itunes, i am an electrical engineer and as such am not thick, and idiot or anything else that people have branded people like myself. I have owned an ipod photo which i changed for a zen vision m due to reliability issues. The zen was very nice but i have gone back to ipod with a nano. Weather you agree or not i think ipod has the best user interface. Its sound quality is not fantastic but when i'm walking donw the street I can't notice the extra few bits per second offered by chunky lossless formats. At home I use flac files for all my content as I can notice the difference when in a nice environment. People who get uppity about artists material being protected need to consider how they would feel if one of the worlds largest industries did nothing to try and protect their skill and talent. We all want what we do to be correctly accredited and for a reward in return. Why should music artists be any different?

I realise that many of my comments are not in response to the article (which i think is very good) but is in response to comments left by users who show little respect for the law and weather they conform to it.

Now i'm a former iPod user, ansd I originally came here to look for an alternative. now, after getting myself into iTunes music, its taken me up until now to dig myself out. After discovering the magics of the ogg format, the awesome utility of Media Monkey, and the insane flexibility of Linux, I realized how deep of a hole i had dug myself into. Desperate to switch to linux (My comp came with Vista, which is utter sh*t) for my college use, I didn't want to lose my music investment.
Now I see why artists who produced this would want their due, and understand that DRM would be a safeguard for them, but DRM in the wrong hands can be used for much more malevolent uses: the dreaded lock in. Now my iTunes collection? I just gave up on converting all of it, and deleted the lot. Yep, I just threw money in the fireplace. Know why I deleted them? disgust at the bitrate they turned out to be. I've learned my lesson about iTunes and lock-in, now I dearly wish others would pick up on this, rather than let the majority do the talking for those of us who care about our music. DRM can be circumvented, and it will continue to be circumvented, so why saddle the brunt of this BS on end users? Why not just go for a precision strike against those who do pirate?
Beware, Apple and Microsoft take the carpet bombing method of crackdown: Hit the people, while the pirates are a step ahead, and are bunkered down, laughing as we take the hits, and at the futility/stupidity of computer companies.
In the end, I think DRM will go the way of prohibition (Yeah, remember how well that went?)

Now i'm a former iPod user, ansd I originally came here to look for an alternative. now, after getting myself into iTunes music, its taken me up until now to dig myself out. After discovering the magics of the ogg format, the awesome utility of Media Monkey, and the insane flexibility of Linux, I realized how deep of a hole i had dug myself into. Desperate to switch to linux (My comp came with Vista, which is utter sh*t) for my college use, I didn't want to lose my music investment.
Now I see why artists who produced this would want their due, and understand that DRM would be a safeguard for them, but DRM in the wrong hands can be used for much more malevolent uses: the dreaded lock in. Now my iTunes collection? I just gave up on converting all of it, and deleted the lot. Yep, I just threw money in the fireplace. Know why I deleted them? disgust at the bitrate they turned out to be. I've learned my lesson about iTunes and lock-in, now I dearly wish others would pick up on this, rather than let the majority do the talking for those of us who care about our music. DRM can be circumvented, and it will continue to be circumvented, so why saddle the brunt of this BS on end users? Why not just go for a precision strike against those who do pirate?
Beware, Apple and Microsoft take the carpet bombing method of crackdown: Hit the people, while the pirates are a step ahead, and are bunkered down, laughing as we take the hits, and at the futility/stupidity of computer companies.
In the end, I think DRM will go the way of prohibition (Yeah, remember how well that went?)